The Joker's real name confirmed, and Joaquin Phoenix meets a clown in first 'Joker' photos

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September 16, 2018

As scheduled, Joker starring Joaquin Phoenix began shooting in New York City this week and today we have the first set photos!

Just Jared has our first look at Joaquin Phoenix in the Harlem neighborhood of Manhattan from earlier today. Phoenix can be seen in character laughing and interacting with a clown.

It looks like Joaquin Phoenix has started filming as the Joker for the standalone #Joker movie! https://t.co/0uwG4l34o0
— JustJared.com (@JustJared) September 16, 2018

Hollywood Pipeline has video of the whole scene playing out:

And speaking of Phoenix's character, Joker director Todd Phillips has given us our first official look on Instagram. A rumor over the summer said that The Joker's real name would be Arthur Fleck, and Phillips confirmed part of that today. "Arthur" is all he captioned the photo below.

View this post on Instagram

What do you think of Joaquin Phoenix's pre-Joker look as Arthur? Let me know in the comments below.

SOURCE: Just Jared

Thanks to Batman News reader Dario Diniz and comic reviewer Andrew Asberry for the heads up!

This is an archive of Batman-News.com from 2010 to 2025. For the latest news, check out BatmanNews.com

117 comments

DickyBird
September 16, 2018
I’m so worried he’s just going to look like Heath’s Joker with his hair that long. I’m interested in how this will look.
1. Rust
  September 16, 2018
  We'll see if he keeps that way, but I see nothing wrong with it if he does.
  The Joker has several hairstyles that I think work wonderfully for the kind of character he is, and the Ledger hairstyle was part of visually personifying his Joker's distaste for societal trappings. He didn't care about washing his hair or brushing his teeth. He only cared about the point he was trying to make.
  If Joaquin's Joker is like that too, I warmly welcome it. :)
  1. DickyBird
    September 16, 2018
    There’s just so many visualizations of the Joker from the comics that we haven’t seen and Heath’s wasn’t from the comics. I just expected something else from Pheonix I guess. I thought it’d be completely different than the four Jokers we’ve seen on film.
    1. Rust
      September 16, 2018
      It still might be. :)
2. Nahuel Benvenuto
  September 17, 2018
  ???? random senseless commentary
  1. DickyBird
    September 17, 2018
    ????????? What do you thing he comment section is for. If you’re defining it that way, then you’re just adding random and senseless commentary on comments about the article. You’re doing a great job.
  2. some person
    September 18, 2018
    Yes, that is what you wrote, what of it?
3. Ben
  September 19, 2018
  Uh...this is just day ONE of filming. They've still got a LOOOONG way to go. Just sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. LOL
Jesse Hernandez
September 16, 2018
That cut reminds me of Heaths joker, I feel like it just fits the Jokers persona. I never understood how the Jared Leto joker had that clean cut slick back hair all sharp. But at the same time that Joker was a Strip club owner. But I’m very excited for Phoenixes portraya, has anyone seen his performance as Commodus in Gladitor ?!
1. Rick
  September 16, 2018
  Probably because for close to 8 decades Joker almost always had a shorter slick back haircut. Didn’t think of that?
2. Winterventions
  September 16, 2018
  Yep! Saw that performance and thought he was fantastic and really made you dislike him.
Anthony Soprano
September 16, 2018
Thanks Chris! Big hug. Always on point :D
ThatGuy
September 16, 2018
So A.Fleck it is then, I guess.
Hunter Zolomon
September 16, 2018
Looking good, i'm loving the hint of madness in his eyes and that look of someone ready to just explode.
1. Queef Police
  September 16, 2018
  the look of a dude hungry for a pay check..
2. Cos Zorro
  September 17, 2018
  all I see in him. Is how fucked up the dceu is right now.. hail satan....
Jack Fitzgerald
September 16, 2018
Holy smokes.. in just these small snippets, I notice so much nuance in the performance
Terrence
September 16, 2018
This looks excellent. I enjoyed the hell out of that clip.
Thanasis
September 16, 2018
He looks incredible. Makes me kinda wish he was the Joker in the DCEU instead of Leto's Joker.
1. Benjep
  September 17, 2018
  This was my thought as well. He could be an incredible Joker and it would be sad to have it left in an elseworld tale.
SΛŁIM
September 16, 2018
In that official image, Joaquin Phoenix gives me a certain vibe to Jack Nicholson in 'The Shining'...
https://image.ibb.co/bCUQwe...
👌
1. Kouglof
  September 16, 2018
  The hair, the clothes, otherwise not that much :D
Queef Police
September 16, 2018
what is this nonsense
1. Rust
  September 16, 2018
  Hopefully a great movie that has some things in common with The Killing Joke. :)
Redhoodsquad
September 16, 2018
That's going to be one old ass Joker
Sense
September 16, 2018
This is very good casting, look at that face.
Daniel Krohn
September 16, 2018
Sigh
I really don’t want to admit this film exists but I will see it I guess
Qthetar .
September 16, 2018
Looks awesome. That’s all I want to hear for now.
Akash Mondal
September 16, 2018
Ben A(rthur)Fleck... 🤔
Fréaláf Hildeson
September 16, 2018
Well he is a great actor so let's hope for the best for this dubious project, I guess.
Vger64
September 16, 2018
Looks like Joaquin Phoenix is our new Joker!!!!!
1. Flower & Monster & Golden Calf
  September 16, 2018
  Wouldn't it be wild Reeve's Batman incorporated this Joker?
  1. Vger64
    September 16, 2018
    So I am not alone in this....When I first heard the news I was hoping Joaquin would be the joker in The Matt Reeves "The Batman"
  2. Lola mendez
    September 21, 2018
    I agree with you on this who knows if Joaquin does a flawless job at being the joker its really buzz worthy even matt Reeves wants him in I wouldn't mind it seeing it
2. Fréaláf Hildeson
  September 16, 2018
  I don't think Joaquin Phoenix does sequels, even less likely he will do "franchise" stuff.
  1. Flower & Monster & Golden Calf
    September 16, 2018
    If the script is good enough, I think he'd do it.
OptimistPrime99
September 16, 2018
https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
DudeofSteel1Million
September 16, 2018
At the very least I'm "intrigued."
I still am hesitant about the very existence of this movie, but Phoenix is a good actor and I'm interested to see what he'll do.
Frank Pepito
September 16, 2018
When the movie was first announced, I was immediately against this film every happening.
Today, I'm over my anal retentive, nothing touches The Killing Joke, comic book geek mentality.
And my bitching is not going to stop WB from making this movie. LOL
Plus there was a Forbes article I read yesterday and describes movies like this Joker one as an Elseworlds story. That really settled my mind and opened the door to just let it go.
I'm looking forward to this flick now.
1. Flower & Monster & Golden Calf
  September 16, 2018
  We all knew this was Elseworlds. What took you so long?
  1. Frank Pepito
    September 20, 2018
    The Elseworlds logo missing from the opening credits...? LOL
2. Winterventions
  September 16, 2018
  If you've got the time, check out the Screenrant article that published a day or two ago titled "Fixing the DCEU: Removing the Snyder films from Canon" and they present a really interesting theory introducing the 'Multiverse' aspect and incorporating this film into it. They suggested that making the Snyderverse as just an 'alternative' but not the set-in-stone canon (based on the polarizing depictions of Superman snapping Zod's neck and Batman's merciless murder and tactics).
  It also allows the freedom to keep the Wonder Woman films in the main verse as so far both her films have been set in the past (also Patty's films directly retcon Snyder's decision to have Diana as 'not doing anything for a century' which I'm a big fan of.
  The only thing I'm unsure of is making Phoenix's Joker connect to Reeve's Batman. From a narrative perspective it makes sense, but Phoenix is quite old and if we're getting a 30s Batman then it might be something to juggle.
  1. Frank Pepito
    September 20, 2018
    Thanks, man. I'll check it out eventually.
    I have to be honest tho', I do get tired of websites offering their opinions on how to fix movies. Not to say the DCEU doesn't need help, but I just seem to see so many of these kinds of articles online now. And with so many other things in the world seemingly always being criticized for this or that and as many suggestions on how to fix them, articles on how to fix comic book movies to me seems at the bottom of my list of things to spend time on. That said, I did admit to reading the Forbes article, but the headline was about ending the DCEU which my mind was in agreement with, not fixing it. LOL But I'll look up the Screenrant article.
  2. Frank Pepito
    September 20, 2018
    I just read the article. The writer put a lot of thought into it. It has merit.
    But halfway through the details, I was reminded by what I learned enjoying MoS and BvS; my non-comic book reading friends vehemently hated them. So what I learned was to not take the general audience (which this article's writer did acknowledge) for granted at all.
    I loved that Snyder had comic book cred, infusing his stories with what DC comic book geeks live and breathe - The Dark Knight Returns, The Death of Superman, the recent Flashpoint - but I see now it was all at the expense of the general audience. Like Star Wars, and to a degree what the Marvel movies aim for, DC movies have to be more aware of pleasing non-fans as much as loyal comic book ones, to not be so slavish to placing easter eggs and acknowledging comic book canon that becomes moments of "What th-?!" to non-fans, pulling them out of simply enjoying a good movie that they only remembered as great entertainment when George Reeves, Adam West, Lynda Carter, Christopher Reeve, and Michael Keaton did them (I can't believe I have friends who are also troubled by Chris Nolan's films 🙄).
    So while this article has some good ideas, I think he's overthinking and overcomplicating it, and trying too, too hard to accommodate me and my geeky brethren who, don't get me wrong, NEED everything to tie in AND have a reason to. That's what cripples Star Trek, the fans getting caught up with canon. But we aren't the only ones watching - and willing to spend money on - these movies. We need to accommodate significantly more of the general folk in my humble opinion. Star Wars movies do that well, Solo notwithstanding. And Marvel movies are definitely more successful at it too.
    DC, just make good, fun movies, like Wonder Woman was. You tried tying them all together, and failed. Now that you've had your shot, forget making it a priority for now. And I'm good with that for now. I want my non-geek fans to enjoy these movies with me for a change.
Winterventions
September 16, 2018
Fucking Christ I still don't understand what Leto was going for.
1. Cos Zorro
  September 17, 2018
  The joker doesn't even know what the joker supposed to mean.
Winterventions
September 16, 2018
I've been sitting here for five minutes trying to nail down what iteration of the Joker he most makes me think of, and I think it is a promising sign that I honestly can't nail down one specific iteration. I can definitely see the makings of an Arkham-series Joker there, but then again, I can also see some little ticks that really play into the 'jester' side, such as Romero's Joker from the 60s Adam West series.
My biggest hope is that we see a narrative journey of a unstable man obsessed with laughter/jokes becoming more and more unhinged, to the point that he is so angry that he can't make other people laugh, so he focuses only on making himself laugh. And to do that, he commits atrocities. Which *he* thinks are hilarious.
notyou_notme
September 16, 2018
Creepy..and I like it
lowdevil
September 16, 2018
As strange as this may look to some, if he nails the voice and character he chose, this will be a home run.
ZaQueerdo
September 16, 2018
No tattoos or gold teeth is a good start.
Claudio La Barbera
September 16, 2018
Artur Fleck
A.Fleck
Affleck
1. BugsMeany
  September 17, 2018
  Did no one notice that? Is it intentional? If so, why?
IamTheOneWhoKnocks
September 16, 2018
Well, this looks.......amazing! I have no doubt Phoenix will nail this role. The movie nobody asked for, but everybody will love.
1. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
  September 16, 2018
  Ignore....they're out in force. Haters hate, it's their MO
  1. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
    September 16, 2018
    Nah...it's fun to know they're butt hurt.
  2. Winterventions
    September 16, 2018
    I am so confused as to what 'show your roll there' means and what he is insinuating towards you?
2. Kerk Lastnameless
  September 17, 2018
  And I think it's going to be another Catwoman or Solo.
3. mr nobody
  September 17, 2018
  well said
4. Bruce
  September 17, 2018
  And don't.
5. Bruce
  September 17, 2018
  What about it looks amazing? It's a goofy guy with stringy hair walking through the mangy late 70s Bronx.
  1. thefallen83
    September 17, 2018
    Obviously you are not familiar with Phoenix's performances.
    1. Bruce
      September 17, 2018
      Clearly I am, Mr. Donaghy; hence my question: What looks amazing about this?
      NB: The creepy guy in high school who ate boogers and stared at you funny... He turned out to be a creepy killer, yeah, but not THE Criminal Mastermind of the Century...
IamTheOneWhoKnocks
September 16, 2018
That was not the Joker, that was some actor doing a Cosplay.
NinjaGamer13
September 16, 2018
Kay. Really don’t care much for this movie :P
1. Winterventions
  September 16, 2018
  I think it deserves a chance, and I welcome a 'Multiverse' concept as ScreenRant suggested, but I'm just curious to see if WB (and whoever has creative control now - is it still Geoff Johns?) make the decision to install him as the 'canon' Joker to exist as the antithesis to Reeve's Batman or if they make their own. The latter of which would be a terrible decision having three separate Jokers in the span of 2016 - 2019/20.
  1. NinjaGamer13
    September 17, 2018
    I don’t see much of a point to an Elsworlds brand of live action movies. I don’t know, maybe if they start doing stories like Red Son or Kingdom Come or something I could see the appeal. But at this point, and especially with how weird the story is shaping up to be and such, this one just doesn’t have my interest much.
    As for your speculation, I think you’re working off of some ideas that don’t necessarily hold true. The last word on Reeves’ Batman movie’s placement is was that it would in fact be part of the DCEU, so there’s no reason to think - if Joker will even be featured at all - that his Joker would be anyone other than Jared Leto. And beyond that, the idea of Phoenix becoming the new DCEU Joker just seems completely impossible from what we know of his Joker movie, since it’s taking placement at the same time Thomas Wayne is still alive and “Arthur Fleck” is already this old. He would be a senior citizen by the time Batman would even start his career crimefighting, lol
    1. Winterventions
      September 17, 2018
      Oh my ... I would *die* for a Red Son. But in today's political climate, sadly I don't think it would happen.
      Is that still true though about Reeves' Batman? I was under the assumption he wanted his own trilogy of films, a la Nolan. I was expecting them to do a kind of 'retcon' thing, similar to what Patty did with WW and (is currently doing) WW1984 by ignoring the Snyder-established "canon" (in very loose terms) that she did nothing for a century.
      Is Johns still their 'Kevin Feige'? I'm not up to date with the WB side of things.
      1. NinjaGamer13
        September 17, 2018
        Yeah, but there are some other potential goodies they might be able to make with this whole alternate universe deal. Of course, all of these might come at the price of confusing the general audience, though...
        Well, last thing I remember is that his idea was for it to be a solo Batman movie just focused on his little world, but still part of the DCEU continuity, and that he would like to eventually, if he can, maybe make sequels to it, too.
        As for WW84, that movie is still part of the DCEU, regardless of what it may or may not be retconning, but we don’t even know that it is retconning anything like so many people like to claim; I for one don’t see any problem with WW doing some superhero-ing throughout that century so long as she doesn’t become in the global spotlight while she does it the same way Superman did after MoS. Such a situation would still fit the dialogue in JL that elaborated on and perhaps seemingly reinterpreted (not broke) that line from BvS.
        But who has any clue about Geoff Johns at this point, lol. Probably yes? All I really know is that he’s not as good at that as Kevin Feige is.
      2. Winterventions
        September 17, 2018
        I actually just read an article that I think they're adapting Red Son into Supergirl Season 4? Though I don't watch any CW shows (stopped after Arrow Season 2).
        I would very much disagree on your take on the WW thing.
        "I walked away from man. A century of horrors."
        There's not too much else to draw away from that line. Suggests that she did nothing for the rest of the 20th Century, which Gal Gadot actively was asked about in an interview and she said she admitted that sometimes writers make a decision that another might disagree with.
        That was a Snyder blunder. That's why I think Patty made a wonderful decision to remove that drab, bleak decision.
        Absolutely agree there on your point about Johns. I love the MCU, but I admit that there are some terrible films (I consider IM3 to be the worst, which is a rarity among people), but Feige's oversight has worked miracles and made it what it is to this day. DC *needs* its own Feige.
        Characters such as WW, Superman, Batman deserve a Feige.
      3. Ben Hühndorf
        September 17, 2018
        To be fair what did WW do between 1917 and 1984? And then between 1984 to 2016? We don’t know yet until the movie comes out. So far we’re all just speculating
      4. BugsMeany
        September 17, 2018
        Well, the photos we've seen show her in the WW outfit in broad daylight in the nation's capital. The 'operating in the shadows' thing seems to have been junked. As it should be.
      5. NinjaGamer13
        September 17, 2018
        So whenever someone is seen by a few people they’re automatically an international superstar? That’s not how that works.
      6. BugsMeany
        September 17, 2018
        Apparently she's willing to be seen in public.
      7. NinjaGamer13
        September 18, 2018
        That’s not really the issue. The only thing that could possibly break the canon is if she becomes globally known in the same way Superman is. As long as that doesn’t happen, the continuity is intact.
      8. Winterventions
        September 17, 2018
        As BugsMeany said, we see her in broad daylight in her costume. The leaked footage show her rescuing a small girl in a shopping mall. That is *not* walking away from mankind. As for the 1917-84 question, I would be willing to bet money that will be explored in WW1984.
        I was testing Ninja. Don't know how long you've been here or not, but he religiously, without hesitation, without question, will defend *every* aspect of the Snyder films. To the obsession that the man is incapable of making a single mistake. It is clear, as BugsMeany said, that the 'walking away from mankind' has been thrown to the trash by Patty Jenkins. And good riddance. Snyder made Superman and Batman both not care about being a hero and inspiring people, we can't have the entire Trinity of DC being indifferent to the suffering of the real people.
        Especially when those three are the defining examples of heroism and selflessness in the comics, of which Snyder has never picked up in his life, save for anything written by Frank Millar.
      9. NinjaGamer13
        September 18, 2018
        LOL, well clearly you are the one who hasn’t been here very long, as I have gone on record multiple times both criticizing aspects of Snyder’s work in BvS and JL. The difference between you and me is that instead of allowing narratives to dictate my opinions about movies and other people, I look at things fairly and judge for myself and then defend them when I perceive that they are being unfairly criticized by an obsessed mob of vitriolic people on the internet (or don’t defend, where appropriate).
        Right, ‘cause having the rest of the DC Trinity being inspired by the original superhero himself is such a bad idea. Give me a break. And “not caring about inspiring people” is completely reading your own negativity into the material, because that’s not at all what these movies were about. If people like you ran the world there would be no compelling stories, because none of their characters would be allowed to be human enough to fall down sometimes or to look to something else for strength once in awhile. It all has to be the simplest degree of black and white, with zero complexity, so that everyone can comfortably hold hands around the screen and not have to challenge their characters ever at all.
      10. NinjaGamer13
        September 17, 2018
        Oh, that could be interesting. I’ve fallen behind on the CW shows, myself. Never even started Supergirl, but I still intend to, just to give it a shot and to see my boy Martian Manhunter.
        But you’re ignoring the JL dialogue that elaborates and reinterprets that line. It’s explained away as her simply not becoming a “beacon to the world,” so it’s not that she just sat around for a hundred years, but that she simply never did anything on the same level as Superman to become known globally. It still works, and it certainly wasn’t a blunder; it was necessary to preserve the continuity of Superman being the first globally known super-powered hero as MoS depicts and as the character deserves to be.
        As for Gal’s comment, I’m not sure how anyone can take it so seriously. She’s an actor, first off, not a writer or director; and second, it was an off-the-cuff answer to I think a fan. She was not necessarily speaking from a place of authority or deep knowledge at all.
        Amen to that. IM3 did drop the ball, though, with that Mandarin thing...
      11. Winterventions
        September 17, 2018
        It's interesting that you refer to that scene in JL, when that is clearly a Joss reshoot, which you so often tell everyone that you despise. How can you tell, you ask? A number of reasons.
        1) Ben Affleck is not in shape. His waist coat is barely concealing his beer gut and his face is pudgy.
        2) The scene has colour.
        3) Due to the fact that we know JL was filmed *directly* after BvS by Snyder, why would he immediately contradict himself?
        I was testing you, Ninja. And you performed exactly as I expected. You a pathologically incapable of acknowledging *any* fault with Snyder's work.
      12. NinjaGamer13
        September 18, 2018
        It probably is, but we don’t know how much was in Snyder’s Cut, too, since most of the dialogue in that scene was just slightly tweaked versions of what we know Snyder had already done for earlier trailers. But that’s irrelevant, anyhow, because I have on a number of occasions not only praised Joss Whedon’s work on some of his Marvel films, but also on Justice League itself; ask anyone who cares to remember, and you’ll know that I really *love* the opening Batman scene he did, for example.
        As for your stupid “evidences,” I would like to correct the “color” and “contradict” ones. Whedon’s Cut of JL does not have color; it has a gross, oversaturated, red/orange wash over the whole movie that makes everything look fake. Snyder’s JL, on the other hand, as we can see from the trailers and from deleted footage that surfaced online, had a much cooler toned, slightly darker (though surprisingly lighter in some scenes), more natural overall hue. Please go do yourself the favor of looking up some videos that compare the trailers to the theatrical release, and you’ll see which looks nicer and cleaner.
        As for the “contradict,” once again, a reinterpretation is not a contradiction. And seeing as Zack Snyder acted as an advisor with Patty Jenkins when planning out worldbuilding with all the other DCEU directors, was a producer on WW, helped write the story for it, even made a cameo in the film, and most of the dialogue from that scene of JL, while slightly tweaked, was taken straight from Snyder’s original script (as we can see by watching the earlier trailers made while he was on board), it seems very unlikely to me that Snyder was not on board with this idea of how to get WW more movies taking place between her solo movie (which ends in a way that suggests she would still help even after Steve Trevor’s death - and once again, Snyder had a significant role in that movie, so that’s telling) and BvS.
        And you’re evidently pathologically full of both yourself and bull crap. Would’ve loved to have had a reasonable conversation with you. I’m sorry you brought it to this. But you anti-Snyder hate troll cult members do tend to struggle at anything beyond the level of childish fecal flinging.
      13. DickyBird
        September 17, 2018
        I definitely agree that WW hasn’t been on the same level as Superman. Even Batman, someone who has been working for 20+ years is still thought off as a myth.
        That being said, it’s still stupid to start a JL movie and act like the world didn’t know that there were superheroes out there. Just feels like a blunder and mixed up timelines. This is something that should have been broader and had obvious pillars to build and a few obvious places to go.
        I don’t think the stuff from BvS or JL has been scrapped; I think they’re building onto them and hopefully giving them complex character development. I also don’t think the BvS or JL or even MoS was the best foundational blocks and it still feels like we are reeling to get back on stable ground. I wasn’t a fan of MoS and don’t think it should have taken three movies to finally find a Superman that’s actually Superman.
      14. Winterventions
        September 17, 2018
        Definitely agreed with the 'thought of a myth', I mean, it was a cool little line in that teaser for JL from Cyborg - "Didn't think you were real". But if he has been in Gotham for 20+ years, it is a bit naive to think that Gotham doesn't believe he exists. I mean, for Christ's sake, there's a goddamn Bat signal.
        Based on the various articles we've seen in regards to the shake-ups with Warner Bros. behind the scenes, as well as scrapping Snyder entirely, going ahead with Patty's WW, removing the Superman cameo from Shazam, and coupled with the nail in the coffin of the literal heads of WB acknowledging that there is a need for course correction and that the Snyder-verse didn't do what they wanted, I would say its fair game to expect them to distance themselves from it.
        Just in case there's a misunderstanding from me, I'm not entirely Anti-Snyder. I actually enjoyed *most* of MoS (the opening Krypton sequence was absolutely phenomenal and I like to rewatch it, it was just the final act of the film was a disaster of headache inducing explosions and an indifferent, careless to the destruction around him Superman), but BvS left me so bitterly disappointed. I pre-booked tickets for its opening weekend, I was unbelievably excited to see my favourite hero (Batman) meeting Superman on the big screen. Instead, I got Bat-Punisher and Not-so-SUPERman. I left the cinema feeling... hollow. Like a kid who just found out that Santa wasn't real and that his parents had been lying to him all his life.
        I was so relieved when I saw WW for the first time. I remember nearly tearing up at the No Man's Land sequence, because it gave me hope that someone in the DC was fighting against the dreary, hopeless world that Snyder created.
      15. NinjaGamer13
        September 18, 2018
        It’s sad that you’re so religiously bent against Snyder that that’s the only reason you teared up at the No Man’s Land scene. And not only that, but that youve also deluded yourself to the point of convincing yourself a movie directed by someone who is consistently friendly with and supported by / supportive of Zack Snyder and WRITTEN IN PART BY ZACK SNYDER HIMSELF is actively “fighting against the ... world that Snyder created.” As someone without an agenda who can appreciate all storytelling wherever quality can be found, I tear up at that scene every single time I watch just because it is so moving, entirely on its own merit. And you have the gall and utter lack of self-awareness to call ME the blind, religiously obsessed one.
      16. NinjaGamer13
        September 18, 2018
        Why is that stupid?
      17. DickyBird
        September 18, 2018
        It’s just ridiculous that heroes HAPPEN to crawl out of the woodwork at the same time. It limits the stories being told ESPECIALLY with this theme of telling WW stories from the past. Gotham has had Batman for decades... everything can always be better... it’s just that this could have all been immensely better.
      18. Winterventions
        September 18, 2018
        @NinjaGamer13:disqus It didn't post my response, luckily I expected it and saved it so I'll copy now:
        "It’s sad that you’re so religiously bent against Snyder that that’s the only reason you teared up at the No Man’s Land scene."
        1) You misread. And you almost completely missed the part about me liking MoS. What I meant by that (and admittedly was a result of my poor wording) was that I teared up at the No Man's Land scene because it represented a hero who inspired hope exactly as you said, then I was supposed to say "AND it gave me hope that not all the DCEU was going to be dark and dreary". Before allowing your emotions to dictate your response, read over what someone said multiple times before responding. Next:
        "The difference between you and me is that instead of allowing narratives to dictate my opinions about movies and other people, I look at things fairly and judge for myself and then defend them."
        Exactly like me with the Nolan Trilogy. I think there are parts of the Trilogy that are very weak (most of them in Rises particularly) and I wish I could change, or I think that Nolan dropped the ball on. However, due to the trend these days to hate on the old to prop up the new (BatfleckRules is a great example of someone who does this), I will defend those films. In the same way, I am willing to let the 'old dog' rest and give the 'new dog' a chance - exactly as we discussed in regards to Suicide Squad, remember? So I resent your claim. Next:
        "It all has to be the simplest degree of black and white, with zero complexity, so that everyone can comfortably hold hands around the screen and not have to challenge their characters ever at all."
        I resent this emphatically. Want to know what one of my all time favourite works of fiction is? Macbeth. Macbeth has the protagonist turn from an honest, loyal man, to a broken, twisted, villainous shell of who he once was. I adore that work. In the same vein, I think the story of Wolverine is an incredible one, a man trying to fight his nature, trying to deal with his guilt, trying to overcome the darkest parts of himself (hence why Logan was one of the most impactful pieces of fiction I have ever had the blessing to experience. Guess what? There are heroes who have defining characteristics. You may be flexible with a story as much as you like, but to surgically remove those characteristics is a dishonour and renders that character a husk with the name of that character:
        These would be examples of unacceptable deviations:
        A Superman who ignores a person falling to their death for 'complexity', when Superman once talked a man out of suicide and then helped him get his life back together.
        A Batman who uses guns and murders people for 'complexity', when he has frequently expressed a passionate, PTSD-inspired hatred of guns and, as we all know, No-Killing rule.
        A Wonder Woman who tells lies and fights for her own selfish desires, when Diana once tore out her own eyes to fight Medusa in order to save the innocent.
        Finally, you assume I've got some agenda against Snyder based on my - what, eight to ten posts on this website? Reaching. I've posted positive things. What I take issue with is that many people like you, ironically, do what Snyder himself does, which is deflect and not acknowledge his own shortcomings.
        When answering the uproar about Clark killing in MoS, he simply stated "if you read the comics he kills people" when it was the *comic readers* who were furious.
        When answering the high body count that Batfleck quite clearly and intentionally left behind, he deflected to a fucking Youtube video "that does a killcount for the Nolan films".
        When answering the backlash and poor critical ratings for BvS, he said "it is what it is; I made this for the fans" when it was the majority (before you jump on this like I know you will, look at that fucking word - majority, *not* all) goddamn *fans* who were the ones who were furious.
        He took potshots at Marvel, to which Sebastian Stan called him out on and, rather beautifully I might add, said "at least Marvel is trying to do something different, and not copying better Nolan films". Snyder was oddly silent after that.
        So, no, Ninja. My agenda here is not some Anti-Snyder thing, I've said this before, I'm not Reverse_Flash or Seb or Hunter_Zolomon, I am someone who has watched from the sidelines, quietly, for months and months. And I see what goes on, and I call it out as it is. Whenever someone says *anything* bad about BvS or Snyder, you appear like a horror story of "don't say his name" and immediately criticize what the person said. You trawl the comments section actively looking for people you disagree with. And most of all, you are blind to your own blunders.
        Me? I acknowledge when I've made a mistake. I acknowledge the faults in the things I love. You? I literally cannot remember the last time you said *anything* critical of Snyder/BvS, it's only ever talking about how much you hate Justice League. At least we agree that Justice League is a garbage dumpster fire.
HAPPYQWERTY
September 16, 2018
SighI really don’t want to admit this film exists but I will see it I guess

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