8 comments

1. 

   Madeleine

   January 25, 2025

   I did a double take at Jason Todd. I see a classic Robin and assume it's Dick as I'm sure most of us do. DC has trained us to that. A classic JayRobin feels like a Golden Ticket. Thanks to Moore (What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?) and Miller (The Dark Knight Returns) Jason and Carrie were my first Robins. They're still my favorites.

   1. 

      Madeleine

      January 26, 2025

      I don't think even Harley is past saving but I can't disagree with the pessimism much as I'd like to. Before Morrison Jason was basically a perfect character. Ever since Morrison every writer has felt free to do as he pleases with Jason. I dislike Morrison's run more all the time...

      I said in another comment that I think G. Willow Wilson could write a good Red Hood run. I'm trying to extract potable water from the desert here but I'd say that Jason's odd cameo in Poison Ivy evidenced an interest in his thought processes. He needs a writer who can stabilize his canon, preferably by reverting to his pre-Morrison status quo.

      There are good stories getting published like but I'm reading almost nothing now and will likely be returning to my former practice of trade reading. Everybody talks about how Jason or Harley or Tim have been ruined but for me the one who's been ruined most irreparably is Bruce. This and a disinterest (to choose a polite term) in the Batfamily have me in doubt about my future as a reader of Batman comics.

      To get back on topic: I preodered the JayRobin figure. It's only $9.99 nd who knows when there'll be another right? Get it while you can...

      1. 

         Madeleine

         January 26, 2025

         I don't blame you for quitting. The objectively terrible decisions they make are why I'm easing out. Gotham War, Caped Crusader, and Absolute Batman are my three biggest disappointments but there's no shortage of examples of bad decisions.

         You're right that the origin retcons are an especially dire example.

         I do enjoy some of the new Batman stories but there are so many other things to read...

   2. 

      Sara

      January 27, 2025

      You're right about Robin assumptions. The proof's in the pudding: I passed on reading about these figures earlier today because I just assumed that was another Dick Grayson. I wouldn't have known it was Jason if I didn't decide to read the comments to kill a few minutes.

      Agree with all that you guys are saying about the state of Jason and DC.

      It's harder all the time to get excited about the prospect of a Jason Todd Robin or Red Hood series when they've been turning Jason into a character I never would have become a fan of in the first place. There's this mountain of crap stinking up his canon. The bigger it grows, the less I feel like it can be pushed back and contained before it contaminates everything.

      The Moore story is one of the few Bronze Age Jason Todd comics I know fairly well. Back when you first began singing Moench's praises, I thought about going back and reading them. Then I realized that if you're mad about how much has been excised, I'd be absolutely fvcking no-sleep-for-weeks furious about it.

      I am actually avoiding old good Jason Todd stories because of how bad the current ones are.

      1. 

         Madeleine

         January 28, 2025

         From the bottom of my heart I understand but I'd recommend reading Moench anyway. It hurts to see what's been and is being taken away but it also proves there's an existing store of high quality forgotten material about Jason. I'm pained to see how few Batman fans including devoted Red Hood fans know more than a severely abridged, badly garbled version of Jason's period as Robin. There's a popular belief that his stories were bad and that's why they were retconned. It isn't true or fair but DC actively encourages this ignorance. I believe there's good in knowing. I liked him before I read his Robin stories but I felt so much more strongly after reading them.

         I believe the best way to save Batman comics is to reset without rebooting by synthesizing older material with what's best in the newer material and thinning out or expelling inferior new material. It can be done. Jason is the best test case. DC has all the material they need to course correct Red Hood. What they lack is the will.

         It's not lost on me that am pontificating about a need to revitalize older comics in a page of links to quaint retro style toys...

         1. 

            Sara

            January 28, 2025

            There are stranger places to talk about Jason than this. No point in feeling awkward about hijacking a toy ad, either. This site is hurting for any kind of activity. The newest Superman trailer couldn't manage a mere dozen comments in the twenty-four hours it's been up.

            I agree that resetting the characters by using the past comics is the way. I also agree it's a damn shame that Red Hood fans, myself included, don't know enough about Jason's Robin era(s) to counter DC's idiocies as well as we might. I just don't think DC will listen even if the best informed fans offer critiques. To whit: People with fairly sound knowledge of at least the Post-Crisis stories have been trying to get DC to backtrack on Jason for years, and all we've gotten for our troubles is more setbacks and affronts. Consequently, like I said, reading more comics I know won't be used by the writers would be additional cause for tooth-gnashing anger on my end.

            I mean, I think we want the same things. It's just, I don't think we'll get them. Ever. I don't enjoy reading and talking about the comics like I used to because the thought that everything is about to get even worse is always at the back of my mind, even when what I'm reading right then is pretty good. Like, if Two-Face and Dark Patterns are solid, what does it matter, really? Something will happen to fvck things up.

            1. 

               Madeleine

               January 29, 2025

               The situation is bleak but I don't believe it's utterly hopeless. I don't in my heart believe that we'll have an ideal restoration of the character Jason was before Morrison but that doesn't mean that some reclamation can occur.

               As m.rodrigues said we will probably have a Red Hood solo this year. In his appearance in Batman & Robin #17 Jason bore a sword in his left hand, the crowbar in his right. Anyone at DC acknowledging that Jason is a swordsman is a step in the right direction. Some fans' confusion over Jason's use of a sword is the sort of thing that to me justifies keeping well read in his stories and speaking out in his behalf. Ignorance about his history abounds and typically is found joined to hostility to him. I had the misfortune to witness this in some CBR comments the other day. Apparently it breaks a sacred code of fan conduct to call Jason "the best Robin" even as a joke or clickbait. But what do most of these people know about Jason's time as Robin? Practically nothing or worse they hold only false beliefs taken from equally ignorant hostile parties.

               I've digressed. What I mean to say is that there are signs of coming improvements. I sympathize with all my heart if you are ready to throw in the towel. I feel that way myself much of the time. I don't want to feel that way and will grasp at anything that makes me feel better...

            2. 

               Sara

               January 29, 2025

               Didn't even realize he was in the last Batman and Robin.

               I'm not going to call this evidence of grounds for hope. I've been misled before. (The Poison Ivy cameo you referred to in Upcoming Comics got me briefly excited. That came to NOTHING. Also, agreed that Wilson could probably write a decent Red Hood story, but maybe not a run.) But an actual team-up and any recognition that Jason isn't just a dumb oaf who relies on brute force, and whom Bruce took on out of pity (because that makes so much sense), is, I will own, good to see.

               I'm too anti-idealist by nature to feel that speaking out on this really helps. I do it because I'm disgusted with people (DC and the haters mainly, but also other people who think they're just being right and reasonable when they aren't) and not because I think they'll see the light. I have watched reviewers and Red Hood bashers maintain the same dumb, ignorant opinion week after week for years, in spite of all my efforts. The abundant ignorance you mentioned is totally a real thing. It feels as real and as solid as a block of concrete. You can't reason with it or shout it down.

               I mean, you've got to have seen tons of people just go selectively deaf when you point out that Jason is losing badly in some deal rigged for another character. If you point out that some garbage trait is not inherent in the character, but is a direct assault on his integrity by editorial or a writer, you'll get no admission from the attackers. To them, he JUST IS a shitty character. That's all they look for evidence for in every appearance he makes. Drives me crazy. One of the best reasons to get out of the comics is to get out of the fandom.