'Justice League' star Ezra Miller compliments fan wearing a custom "Snyder Cut" t-shirt

Justice League star Ezra Miller is at Middle East Film & Comic Con in Dubai this weekend, and he just met a big Zack Snyder fan.

The fan, who was wearing a custom "I Need Snyder Cut" t-shirt, met Ezra Miller at an autograph signing at the event. According to the fan, Miller said that he agreed with his t-shirt and even complimented him on his hair. You can watch their interaction in the video below.

I canâ€™t believe ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ I just met The Flash himself Ezra Miller he said I agree with your t shirt and I like your hairstyle ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ he is amazing pic.twitter.com/QPVzLUvxS0
— Aqeel Plus (@AqeelPlus) April 6, 2018

Many of Zack Snyder's friends and co-workers have come out to support him and his original cut of Justice League before Warner Bros. ordered new scenes from Joss Whedon. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that Warner Bros. will be releasing an alternate cut of Justice League any time soon. The movie just hit Blu-ray last month and only included two deleted Superman scenes.

407 comments

Nightwing Fan J

April 6, 2018

Ezra seems really nice. Too bad the Flash was so poorly written in Justice League. I hope to see a better version of him in the Flash movie.

ItzSilentStorm
April 6, 2018
i dont think it was poor. Just not quite where it needed to be. Characterization needs some tuning. Honestly what I want from Ezra's flash can basically be summed up by that one short scene he appeared in during suicide squad. One of the better parts of the movie for me.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
1. Nightwing Fan J
  April 6, 2018
  I guess so. I still hope to see him improve in future movies.
  1. ItzSilentStorm
    April 6, 2018
    i mean what are you referring to specifically? His dialogue? His portrayal? Both?
    1. Nightwing Fan J
      April 6, 2018
      Mainly dialogue. There were scenes that just sounded bad to me (brunch joke, Bat-signal joke). There were other scenes where he was awesome, though (running past Superman, drawing on the guy's face). So I don't think he's a bad actor for Barry, he just needs proper writing and guidance.
    2. ItzSilentStorm
      April 6, 2018
      totally agree
    3. Nightwing Fan J
      April 6, 2018
      And his costume isn't terrible, though it could use improvements. I'm sure they'll change it every movie anyway. That's just what they do.
    4. Ravager
      April 6, 2018
      I loved the costume!
    5. Jacob Atienza
      April 6, 2018
      His costume armor actually made sense, given the number of times he lost balance and stumbled on the ground.
    6. Nightwing Fan J
      April 6, 2018
      And the fact that they were battling a god and getting thrown around all the time lol
      But the Speed Force does put a protective aura around speedsters, so technically, he really doesn't need the extra padding at all.
    7. Jacob Atienza
      April 6, 2018
      Oh yeah, I just think visually it makes sense since he is technically still a novice, and the padding and protection just reinforces this fact. I'm sure further down the line, his suit will get lighter as his confidence and abilities grow.
    8. Nightwing Fan J
      April 6, 2018
      Yep! It definitely will. Plus, toy sales. Different costumes = different toys = potential to make lots of money
    9. Batman's Cave Fun
      April 7, 2018
      Yeah I liked the idea behind the JL costume but a more stream-lined costume would be nice. Honestly though it never bothered me.
    10. UltimateEdition
      April 6, 2018
      I thought that he was a bright spot compared to the rest of the film.
    11. Nightwing Fan J
      April 6, 2018
      https://media.giphy.com/med...
    12. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      am i wrong bud in sayin that the brunch was a reshoot?
    13. Nightwing Fan J
      April 7, 2018
      You can never be too sure what was and wasn't reshot in the movie, but I'd say that most likely it was.
    14. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      yah felt outta place
    15. ItzSilentStorm
      April 7, 2018
      the brunch part was definitely a reshoot i believe. I think you can tell by slight change in Ezra and Ben's appearance. I am slightly convince that it was Whedon's idea to amp up the "socially awkward" aspect of this flash
    16. Boy Wonderkin
      April 7, 2018
      Any time you can spot a green screen background or Ezra’s poor wig, it’s a reshoot. That scene has both. So you are 💯
    17. TimTaison
      April 10, 2018
      U write the same thing about cock
      Yet I watched you swallow a Frankenstein cock 4x sonwhy are you complaining are you running for office
    18. Seb is a Socialist
      April 10, 2018
      yyarsagdf
    19. David
      April 7, 2018
      Lol...amateurs. His costume was awesome...the best version of a flash costume ever. He's a great actor, needs no guidance at all. And the only reason you have your panties in a bunch is because you have a specific comic line in mind and want him to act more like that. He played the character phenomenally, as someone who is just starting out and hasn't discovered his full capabilities yet.
    20. Nightwing Fan J
      April 7, 2018
      It seems to me that the only one with bunched panties is you. I said I didn't mind the costume. I also said it could use improvements. Nope. No bunched panties here. As for a specific comic line, no, not really. I would like for him to act like Barry Allen. Barry has always been the same in the comics, so there isn't a specific comic line that I'd prefer. He just needs to be Barry. The real Barry.
2. Boy Wonderkin
  April 7, 2018
  Agreed. His cameo was so much fun to see. That 2hr mandate really stifled character development in JL.
Sense
April 6, 2018
That "Batcave" joke was devastating.
Hunter Zolomon
April 6, 2018
I liked his acting but my god that was no Barry Allen or even Wally, Bart or Jay, really he was Barry in name only.
1. DudeofSteel1Million
  April 6, 2018
  He was like an amalgam of Barry and Wally's personality.
  In which case, it would have been preferable if they just called him "Wally" in the movie as it would have made more sense, but I guess they just wanted to differentiate him enough from the TV show, but still retain his name.
  It is what it is.... Still, he's better than that whiner moronic doofus clowning around on the CW.
  1. Hunter Zolomon
    April 6, 2018
    But he was nothing like Wally though so that doesn't work, anyone who says he's like Wally clearly has never read anything what features Wally. I don't like the CW version of Wally but he shares more traits with Wally then Miller ever has.
    1. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 6, 2018
      Why? I read comics. How is he "nothing" like Wally? It's kinda stupid when people try to paint themselves as experts on comic lore by making broad statements without any form of substance to their arguments. I never said he was a faithful adaptation, but it's clear where they got their inspiration from (not to mention the animated series where Wally is also portrayed as being faster running his mouth than his legs).
      As for the CW version, both Barry and Wally have some traits of their comic counterparts, but they're ultimately just as watered down as JL, if not moreso.
    2. Hunter Zolomon
      April 6, 2018
      Because Wally isn't awkward, nerdy and twitchy, i've spent the past couple of years reading Waid's and Johns runs on Wally's Flash so yeah i know the character extremely well and same goes for the worlds of The Flash's so i know what i'm talking about here. Apart from making Flash the "Joke" character they took fuck all from Wally's or Barry's Flash.
      As for the CW yeah in agree they are different but at least Barry feels like The Flash, Miller sure didn't.
    3. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 6, 2018
      Wally not being awkward? Kid Flash being a member of the Teen Titans in the comics was definitely no 100% stud. In fact, none of them really aren't "nerdy" or "awkward" now and again. Hell, you ever watch what kind of damage Smallville did by trying to make their Flash (Bart Allen) an amalgam of EVERY Flash (even name dropping them all as false identities he's taken), but start him off as an unlikable twit who steals from people?
      And again, I never said JL was a faithful adaptation in terms of mashing two personalities together, but the whole "inexperienced kid with superpowers" angle pretty much flows into quite a handful of superheroes that's not just particular with the Flash.
      Barry on the CW feels like the Flash? Umm... Okay, maybe he DID, but considering the amount of melodrama he deals out every episode, he sure is a far cry from the "happy-go-lucky fun" superhero that the Flash normally represents.
    4. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      Did you like how Barry was portrayed in Arrow? Ezra Miller’s Flash reminds me a bit of that.
    5. Hunter Zolomon
      April 6, 2018
      Not really and two episodes of Arrow can't be used as evidence especially when The Flash show gives us a better take on Gustin's Barry to judge.
    6. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      He’s pretty consistent in all his Arrow appearances and season 1 of Flash. Season 2 on he just started being serious all the time and felt different.
      But anyway, I find that sort of geeky, bubbly personality a fair representation of the character and his optimism. I think that’s what they were going for with Ezra Miller’s version, but also keeping in mind his youth and giving him space to develop (since that’s the trend with all the DCEU characters). In a solo movie, he has more space to show off more and deeper aspects of who he is.
      ...Plus Whedon put the jokes into hyperdrive, so
  2. UltimateEdition
    April 6, 2018
    This is my own personal theory... but I believe the original plan was to use flashpoint to bring back a lot of dead characters even with slight name changes. Case in point Wallace Keefe I’m BvS. When Bruce comes to him during the black zero event, he sees him on the ground saying “I can’t feel my legs... I can’t feel my legs”... Bruce then says “Wallace... what do they call you ...Wally?”
    Wallace Keefe responds: “you’re the boss... boss.”
    if that is not a damn Wally west Easter egg then I don’t know what is...
2. Seb
  April 6, 2018
  Exactly.
  I'm still figuring out who this character was even supposed to be. He acted nothing like any of the Flashes.
  1. Nightwing Fan J
    April 6, 2018
    Spider-Flash lol
    1. Royal Ruler
      April 6, 2018
      Don't involve Spiderman on this
    2. Nightwing Fan J
      April 6, 2018
      Lol fine
J.K.2019
April 7, 2018
The only actor with credibility here is Ben Affleck.And, He knew that movie sucked and it gonna bomb.That's why his non-caring attitude during the filming.
NinjaGamer13
April 7, 2018
He does seem nice!

NinjaGamer13

April 6, 2018

#ReleasetheSnyderCut

myzterius
April 6, 2018
https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
1. NinjaGamer13
  April 6, 2018
  Once again, that is illogical
2. emily_10
  April 7, 2018
  Do it 👍🏻
3. Kouglof
  April 8, 2018
  https://thumbs.gfycat.com/E...
Kouglof
April 6, 2018
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/F...
Reverse_Flash
April 6, 2018
#ReleaseTheWhedonCut
1. Kouglof
  April 6, 2018
  https://media.giphy.com/med...
2. NinjaGamer13
  April 6, 2018
  No thanks. We got it already.
  1. Reverse_Flash
    April 6, 2018
    Not the full cut.
    WB is hidding the masterpiece.
    1. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      honestly i would rather take a full whedon jl film or a full snyder jl film over the frankenstein we gots.
    2. Kouglof
      April 7, 2018
      https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
    3. Aleksander Bibik
      April 7, 2018
      You mean mastershit. That's what Whedon Cut is.
    4. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      No, that's Snyder's cut. The unwatchable one.
    5. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      This is not reality
    6. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      It is.
    7. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      No, it was a single internet rumor that contradicts all the other reports, rumors, evidence, and confirmations we have to the contrary.
    8. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      What reports and evidence?
      Source?
    9. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      They’ve been going on for MONTHS. Keep up with the news. They’re EVERYWHERE.
    10. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      LOL I knew you were lying. There's nothing out there.
    11. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, tbh
    12. myzterius
      April 7, 2018
      Remember when you said that snyder getting fired wasnt true?
    13. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      No. I remember saying a lot of things I was wrong about, but I must’ve forgotten that...
    14. Aleksander Bibik
      April 8, 2018
      How do you know it's unwatchable?Did you watch it? No. I watched whedon version in cinema and owned my digital copy and in my opinion it's crap. I don't think Snyder Cut would be masterpiece, beacause i didn't watch it, but i think it would be better without this ridicolous jokes and one liners. Unwatchable means "unwatchable for WB executives". If it's similar to BvS, that's good for me and many fans around the world. Even cast agre with Snyder fans. So don't try to argue because you're wrong.
    15. Reverse_Flash
      April 8, 2018
      I've seen his other movies. That's how I know.
    16. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      Except the only things cut were probably like 2 lines
    17. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      Wrong boi.
      #ReleaseWhedonsJLMasterpiece
    18. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      I keep forgetting you’re a troll
aGuyWhoIsLazy
April 6, 2018
Agreed.
Qthetar .
April 6, 2018
#DontreleasetheUnwatchableCut
1. NinjaGamer13
  April 6, 2018
  You have nothing to lose and POTENTIALLY everything to gain. Not wanting the Snyder Cut makes ZERO logical sense.
myzterius
April 6, 2018
https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
1. Nightwing Fan J
  April 6, 2018
  I see what you're doing. You're going to reply to every "Snyder Cut" comment with that gif, so every time we think of the words "Snyder Cut" we associate it with that disturbing image, subsequently making us not want the Snyder Cut. You're a genius.
  1. myzterius
    April 6, 2018
    You're the real genius for figuring out my genius plan.
2. Kouglof
  April 6, 2018
  I am not disturbed by this woman putting her fingers in her eyes.
  https://i.makeagif.com/medi...
  1. Tobescolombo
    April 6, 2018
    STAHP!
  2. marcelb
    April 7, 2018
    Jesus!
3. NinjaGamer13
  April 6, 2018
  Oh my gosh please no
myzterius
April 6, 2018
https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
1. Rust
  April 6, 2018
  This kind of wanton destruction is something people complained about from Zack's Superman with the insistence that it was out of character, but here it is (yet again) from the ever-popular JLU.
  "Why didn't Superman just fly Grundy away from the city?" :P
  1. myzterius
    April 6, 2018
    "why joss didnt just fly zack away from justice league"
    I guess it was a matter of life or death. :p
    I never complained about the destruction though, i only pointed out that supes did cause damage. He should've stopped that truck that zod threw at him and you know it ;)
    1. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      https://m.youtube.com/watch...
      https://m.youtube.com/watch...
    2. myzterius
      April 6, 2018
      The problem with your video is that it doesnt talk about the outcome of when a structure falls, there's debris falling all over, not to mention that big ass explosion, and having a car fall on his head by not stopping the truck. The weirdest thing about all of this, is that he stares at the explosion like he forgot he was in the middle of a fight. https://uploads.disquscdn.c... https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
    3. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      Watch the video.
      Are you complaining they handled the explosion realistically and in a non-cliched way by having him look at it? Lol
    4. myzterius
      April 6, 2018
      Yea sure, looking at an explosion for 5 seconds when youre in a middle of a fight with the whole world depending on you is realistic lol. Do you hear yourself sometimes? He got knock down because of that lack of focus that he couldve prevented by stopping the truck.
    5. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      It wasn’t 5 whole seconds. He quickly looked back as a literal giant explosion happens behind him. If you can cause a giant explosion and not look at it briefly when it happens to you, I will be beyond shocked. I always think it’s funny when action heroes don’t look back, because it’s often so unreal.
    6. myzterius
      April 6, 2018
      Sorry, it wasnt 5 seconds because zod knocked him down before he starred for another half hour. When you're fighting, its not time to look at fireworks, especially when its not july 4.
    7. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      Lol, another half hour, okay bro
    8. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      i actually laughed out loud bud
    9. TimTaison
      April 10, 2018
      Chil u laugh when I put my fist up ur butt
      You big dummy
      That’s me laughing that was you moaning in XTC
      Cause it feels good
    10. Seb is a Socialist
      April 10, 2018
      redfasdf
    11. Reverse_Flash
      April 6, 2018
      Zod was incompetent.
    12. Human target
      April 8, 2018
      How ?
    13. Rust
      April 6, 2018
      I would rather he'd have stopped the truck, but it didn't pose a threat to anyone in the moment, and he was also still new to superpowered battles, so I forgave it. Focusing on Zod was the most important thing for him to do there.
      A more experienced Superman would ideally have stopped the truck no question. :)
      I didn't mean to seem like I was saying you were one of the people complaining about the destruction. I was just pointing it out because the gif, while anti-Snyder, also makes a pro-Snyder point in a way. haha
    14. myzterius
      April 6, 2018
      It didn't cause a threat because its a movie, but in the real world it probably would. He didnt focus on zod though, he starred at the explosion until zod knocked him to reality.
      "while anti-Snyder, also makes a pro-Snyder point in a way. "
      Lol true.
      "A more experienced Superman would ideally have stopped the truck no question. "
      I don't think you need experience to stop a slow moving truck coming at you, its pretty obvious tbh. Still a good movie nonetheless.
    15. Rust
      April 6, 2018
      It's not a matter of simply stopping the truck, it's the idea that he has to be more considerate of collateral damage.
      A newbie Superman might understandably be too focused on stopping the enemy and keeping a cool head to think about those other things compared to an experienced Superman.
      That's what I meant moreso than literally staring at Zod, because it's also understandable to get distracted by an explosion when it's bigger than you maybe expected, and he's likely making sure no one's in that parking garage within range of it.
    16. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      y r u wastin ur time with this shithole
    17. Rust
      April 7, 2018
      He's always been nice to me. We disagree about BvS, but he's funny and has made plenty of posts I respect or agree with. :p
      He also has been receptive to my counter-arguments and willing to consider things I say, so yeah. We've had a good time chatting.
    18. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      ur kidding me bud. he a fuckin troll
    19. Rust
      April 7, 2018
      He tends to troll people that troll him. He's never trolled me without it being tongue-in-cheek playfulness. Never in an insulting, toxic way.
    20. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      im beginnin to wonder if uve been played from the beginning and this is just your way of coping with it.
    21. Rust
      April 7, 2018
      https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
    22. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      hahaz im serious lolz. how can u tell bw playful teasin and trollin? it sounds the same.
    23. Rust
      April 7, 2018
      I just assume based on the context of the convo, and by comparing his post composure to the way our much more angry, bitter neighbors behave. He's been considerate and made well-reasoned points without name-calling me, so I give the benefit of a doubt. :)
      Can only speak for my interactions with him though, of course, not yours. Usually hostility breeds more hostility, so maybe you made him mad. haha
    24. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      a fact im proud of
    25. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      I tend to have a good amount of positive experiences with myzterius, too. We definitely have our disagreements and arguments, but at the end of the day, we get along to some degree. I like him.
    26. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      whatever u says belle
    27. TimTaison
      April 10, 2018
      He sucks a mean dick for $100
      Tongues a butt hole for $150
      His man pussy feels good for $200
      He booty bumps a dildo dipped in T daily double
      How much ya gonna wager
    28. Seb is a Socialist
      April 10, 2018
      hasdf
  2. Seb is a Socialist
    April 7, 2018
    i hope u understand by now that myzterius is a convicted stalker.
    1. TimTaison
      April 10, 2018
      Oo now you wanna play streetlight with your yellow warnings
      Aren’t we all stalkers convicted of mysteriousness...
      You wanted that last piece of pie and you get it after saying what?
      You saw that car for $23K and you got it on what terms?
      You wanted to fuck his butt and you did repeatedly with a lil bit of encouragement from which letter in the alphabet?
    2. Seb is a Socialist
      April 10, 2018
      ASD
2. NinjaGamer13
  April 6, 2018
  Whoops, that’s embarrasing, you put the faces on the wrong bodies...
  1. myzterius
    April 6, 2018
    The unwatchable cut disagrees with you unfortunately...
    1. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      Facts
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      You
    2. myzterius
      April 6, 2018
      You're saying that im an inch away? Yesss.. Did you just edit your comment lol
    3. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      Lol, I had a ton of lines between the words, but Disqus cut them all down
    4. myzterius
      April 6, 2018
      Lol, blaming the system again...deja vu ;)
J.K.2019
April 7, 2018
#ReleasetheFlash.Garbage casting.
1. Human target
  April 8, 2018
  Are you talking about grant ?

Kouglof

April 6, 2018

https://78.media.tumblr.com...
https://78.media.tumblr.com...
https://78.media.tumblr.com...
https://78.media.tumblr.com...
https://78.media.tumblr.com...
https://78.media.tumblr.com...
https://78.media.tumblr.com...
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/F...

Nightwing Fan J
April 6, 2018
I really hope they recast Iris. She is not a good actress.
1. nelson
  April 6, 2018
  Kylie Bunbury who was on "Game Night" would be my choice for Iris.
  1. Nightwing Fan J
    April 6, 2018
    Sure. Why not?
  2. Benito Mussolini
    April 6, 2018
    Why is Iris West black in live-action, but white in the comics?
    1. Nightwing Fan J
      April 7, 2018
      In the show, it's because she was written that way. Her dad was black, so she must also be black. There's no reason for her to be black in the movies though. It really could go any way.
2. Seb is a Socialist
  April 7, 2018
  i heard good thigns
  1. Nightwing Fan J
    April 7, 2018
    Nothing I've seen her in has been good so far
    1. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      what u see bud
    2. Nightwing Fan J
      April 7, 2018
      She was on a Disney channel show. It was bad.
      Yes. I watched a Disney channel show. I have a little sister.
    3. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      whatver scuse works for you lolz
    4. Nightwing Fan J
      April 7, 2018
      lol
Danny Rodriguez
April 6, 2018
wtf. where did u get those screens from? Ive seen them before but not with the effects and all. that shit looks really good. FUCK U WB
1. J.K.2019
  April 7, 2018
  Too many plots ruined BvS.Jl had many issues but cutting these scenes wasn't it.Jl needed a better script, Villain and less cgi.
  1. Human target
    April 8, 2018
    Wb messed with bvs. Bad editing and pacing.
Hunter Zolomon
April 6, 2018
God i hate how Snyder just added lightning to even Barry doing a simple speed feat and he couldn't even get the color right.
1. NinjaGamer13
  April 6, 2018
  Realismmmmmmmmm
  1. Hunter Zolomon
    April 6, 2018
    There's nothing realistic about a man who can run so fast he breaks the sound barrier or another man who can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes. End of the day considering the Speed Force powers Barry you can't use normal science to his speed, the fact Snyder tried too shows he knows jackshit beyond pretty visuals.
    1. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      There can be. What a close-minded, unimaginative view. If people like you were in charge of this sort of stuff, we never would have gotten The Dark Knight Trilogy.
      We don’t know the extent of his powers in the DCEU yet.
    2. Hunter Zolomon
      April 6, 2018
      But Batman can be realistic considering he's a fucking non powered human with non powered villains. End of the day Superman is a guy whose faster then a speeding bullet, can fly, shoot lasers from his eyes and survive being in the heart of a nuke explosion, sorry but there's nothing realistic about that and its pointless trying to be as hence why Marvel gave up trying to explain the science and just went with it.
      As for Barry in the DCEU well the Speed Force does exist as Barry name dropped it and the Speed Force shits over normal science, that's why people can survive being grabbed at those speeds when he saves people because in the real world that would kill you, you see the Speed Force gives Speedsters an aura what protects them and people they touch from the harmful effects of going those speeds. Please Ninja i'm one of the biggest Flash fans on here so i know my stuff, just give up trying to argue about this because you can't win.
    3. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      stop upvoting ur own comments dipshit.
    4. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      You just going to comment on all my posts?
    5. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      just the ones where u act like an attention troll
    6. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      ??????????
    7. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      gotcha
    8. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      Small correction, speed doesn't kill people. Acceleration does. So suppose that Flash accelerated extremely slowly, then there wouldn't be any problems for regular humans. Except when he's nearing light speed, then all sorts of weird shit happens (mass not being constant is one of them).
      But nevertheless, agreed with everything you said :p
    9. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      Except no he can’t, by your logic. Any character that can be described in a ridiculous way can’t be realistic. If Superman is nothing but a “man who can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes,” then Batman is simply a guy running around punching people in his bat pajamas.
      Actually, there are (highly) theoretical scientific explanations for most of Superman’s abilities. He is primarily a sci-fi character, not a fantasy one. That’s why I love the way MoS handled him so much; they brought the character into the real world, handled him seriously and realistically, and brought his story into a new light. And they definitely got rid of the stigma he had for some people of being a cheesy, overpowered, unbelievable, one-dimensional character.
      You see, there’s this concept of fiction called verisimilitude. That’s usually what people mean when they refer to realism in a fictional story. Because, in reality, we all know it is highly unlikely or simply impossible for most of fiction to take place, frankly, and more than that, we know that it in fact doesn’t/didn’t/won’t (hence calling it “fiction”). But what matters is allowing for the suspension of disbelief within the world of the story. In TDK Trilogy and MoS’ worlds, this was accomplished through taking the characters and their stories seriously, largely recreating our own real world for the world of the movies, and providing explanations and things with some kind of solid basis in or at least inspiration from real scientific concepts and possibilities. Fiction is always the least likely course of events; that’s what makes stories exciting, so it’s not that that is the judge of whether it can be called realistic or not - it’s just whether it has at least the semblance of being possible (even if only remotely so) within the bounds of the suspension of disbelief.
      Even the MCU still holds onto its sci-fi roots. It just tends to do it much more poorly and with less care than DC (which I certainly do not consider commendable). But they still have not crossed the boundary of science, even with Doctor Strange, who simply became a man with the ability to channel extra-dimensional energies, rather than a true magic user.
      Who said you weren’t a Flash fan? Who was saying any of that? I’m not arguing about the Speed Force, and I’m sure you know more about the character than I do. But in the movie, all we get is a name-drop, which Barry describes as “a layer of dimensional reality that’s supposed to manipulate spacetime,” which he calls “the Speed Force.” I don’t know about you, but that sounds to me more like the theoretical concept of allowing for faster-than-light travel through warping a bubble of spacetime around the object using dark matter than the metaphysical, extra-dimensional entity that the Speed Force seems to tend to be in other stories. I don’t know. My point is just that we don’t know a lot definitively about how they will explain everything in detail and what the Speed Force is in this universe for sure yet. All we have now is vague inferences and ideas.
      Or heck, maybe this version of the Flash simply has a different connection with the Speed Force and goes faster. I just don’t think it’s fair to judge too harshly yet with as little information we have.
    10. Flidais
      April 6, 2018
      https://www.youtube.com/wat...
      He's not competent director but foolhardy, wantin' too much
      He've lost what the film really is when disoriented in the first
      He deserves nothing less than the worst you can do,
      Fans do nothing to help him
      He've set a impractical sight
      Beyond his ability that he overestimating
      He've set a impractical sight
      Beyond his ability that he overestimating
      ooohh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh oh
      He keep on letting audience down
      Even the rats say they don't want he around
      Your narrow mind only defends Snyder blindly
      Reality concept is never epic myth
      He've set a impractical sight
      Beyond his ability that he overestimating
      He've set a impractical sight
      His ability that he overestimating
      He've set a impractical sight
      Beyond his ability that he overestimating
      Overestimating
      Overestimating
      Overestimating
      He've set a impractical sight
      He's not competent director but foolhardy, wantin' too much
    11. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      ...
2. Kouglof
  April 7, 2018
  Oh you hate Zack Snyder because Flash's lightning is not orangey, you poor baby...
  http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/re...
  Now give us your fan theory about why which speedster has which color because it has a "real" meaning. And also tell us that you hate all Batman movies until BvS because the previous Batman movies had black costume, now it's grey like in the CB ;)
  1. Hunter Zolomon
    April 7, 2018
    Keep living up to that Snyder fanboy attitude, the Snyder fanbase is pretty much the runt of the litter when it comes to fanbases involving DC. Unless you can put out a decent mature response people will just laugh at you and act the way i do with kids like you, i could argue about why i'm right but frankly i can't be fucked with the Snyder fanbase hence why i've dropped being nice and thoughtful with deluded fans like you. Its sad there's only a small number of Snyder fanboys on here what actually act like adults and can put up a decent argument.
    1. Kouglof
      April 7, 2018
      Hey, not my fault if your argument is: "I have hidden my own arguments".
    2. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      Not my fault your head is so up Snyder's arse that you blindly defend him on every single article on this site. In fact i don't think i've seen you comment on anything what doesn't involve Snyder or the DCEU what says it all really.
    3. Kouglof
      April 7, 2018
      https://media.giphy.com/med...
Royal Ruler
April 6, 2018
Couldn't they find a more sexy iris west. I don't care about her skin colour

marsz

April 6, 2018

Still can't believe how bad WB and Whedon ruined this movie. Release the Snyder cut!!!

Reverse_Flash
April 6, 2018
https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
1. Kouglof
  April 6, 2018
  Yeah good idea, let's oversaturate superhero genre with Marvel copycat movies /s
2. ShatteredWorld
  April 6, 2018
  What does this have to do with anything? Rotten Tomatoes doesn't define the quality of a film.
  1. Reverse_Flash
    April 6, 2018
    Audience ratings?
    The Avengers > BvS
    Box Office?
    The Avengers > BvS
    Anyway you look at it,
    The Avengers > BvS.
    1. Ravager
      April 6, 2018
      Sadly for you, people like me will always view BvS as superior, and a stupid rating on a dumb website will never change that fact.
    2. Reverse_Flash
      April 6, 2018
      Nah it's cool. We all have our guilty pleasures.
    3. Hunter Zolomon
      April 6, 2018
      You can prefer it all you want but it doesn't change that the majority prefer The Avengers and don't like BvS.
    4. Qthetar .
      April 7, 2018
      The fact that you prefer BvS shows exactly why you don’t belong to the majority of opinions. That movie was trash, bad lines, bad plot, no fun, nothing. The only thing I enjoyed was Batman saving Martha. No not the other Martha, out of all the Martha’s.
    5. Ravager
      April 7, 2018
      Cool story.
    6. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      And you’re a troll, so how much does that comment mean to anyone? Not at all.
    7. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      And yet JL still flopped.
    8. Reverse_Flash
      April 6, 2018
      Yeah.
      BvS destroyed it's opening weekend.
      Another flop in Zack's record.
    9. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      conspiracy shithole retard
    10. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      All based on facts.
    11. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      stop hiding behind sockpuppets zolomon.
    12. Reverse_Flash
      April 8, 2018
      Stop hiding behind sock puppets Nahuel.
    13. Seb is a Socialist
      April 8, 2018
      who the fuck is nahuel? i havent even seen anyone commentin of that name. best u could do was call me ninjas sock.
    14. Reverse_Flash
      April 9, 2018
      Nahuel Benvenuto, one of your many sock puppets.
    15. Seb is a Socialist
      April 9, 2018
      oh he is an actual user and ia ctually upvoted one of his comments. we certainly agree on some shit but disagree on other shit. strange that ud pick him as my sockpuppet of choice zoli.
    16. Reverse_Flash
      April 9, 2018
      Don't lie.
    17. Seb is a Socialist
      April 9, 2018
      guy called hunter zolomon has a sock called reverse-flash. have to give him creeds thats pretty genius.
    18. Reverse_Flash
      April 9, 2018
      OK Nahuel.
    19. Seb is a Socialist
      April 9, 2018
      bet ur godspeed too
    20. Reverse_Flash
      April 9, 2018
      Alan Conn ^
    21. Reverse_Flash
      April 10, 2018
      What's that Alan?
    22. Reverse_Flash
      April 10, 2018
      What's that Andre?
    23. Reverse_Flash
      April 10, 2018
      Andre?
    24. TimTaison
      April 10, 2018
      Chil, they is flirtin’ not trollin’
      I wanna watch them have man on man sex
      Jack bottoms, mostly a top though thrusting his cock up a guys bum, nice
    25. Kouglof
      April 7, 2018
      "BvS destroyed it's opening weekend."
      and JL destroyed its opening
      https://www.thewrap.com/wp-...
    26. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      Let's see:
      -JL had a 56% second weekend drop which is a pretty decent drop (less than Civil War).
      -BvS plummeted with a record breaking 70% drop.
      -JL had a better RT critic and audience score than BvS, better Metacritic score, better Cinemascore (BvS had the same as Catwoman), better IMDB score.
      Except for the opening, JL performed much better than BvS. Dropped less and had better legs. BvS opened huge because it had massive hype and was bringing iconic characters together for the first time, but the word of mouth was so bad that it dropped like a dead fly. It also hurt the opening of it's sequel (which was by all means, considered a better movie). It's been proven that bad movie can hurt a superior sequel. E.g TMNT 2 was considered better than it's prequel, but made less. Attack of the Clones was considered better than Phantom Menace, but made less.
      There you go, I schooled you again.
      Cheers.
    27. ShatteredWorld
      April 7, 2018
      Audience Ratings or Box Office aren't resonate of quality bruh. Just because the majority like something doesn't make it right or wrong.
    28. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      "aren't resonate of quality bruh"
      Then what is?
      Your fanboy opinion?
    29. ShatteredWorld
      April 7, 2018
      The opinions of everyone. Which is to say, just because someone likes one film over another doesn't make them more right than someone else.
    30. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      "The opinions of everyone"
      In that case:
      The Avengers > BvS
    31. ShatteredWorld
      April 7, 2018
      That literally is not what I meant. What I'm saying is that bringing up RT and the opinions of others is irrelevant and invalidates nothing, especially the opinions of those that think the opposite. Time to grow up, methinks.
    32. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      You said opinions are "resonate of quality".
      Now you say they are irrelevant.
      K...
    33. ShatteredWorld
      April 7, 2018
      I didn't say they are irrelevant. Learn to read. I'm saying they are ALL relevant.
    34. Reverse_Flash
      April 7, 2018
      You're contradicting yourself.
    35. ShatteredWorld
      April 8, 2018
      No I am not. My entire point is that every opinion is important and relevant and that they shouldn't be dismissed because of RT scores.
    36. Reverse_Flash
      April 8, 2018
      Again, what defines quality for you?
    37. ShatteredWorld
      April 10, 2018
      Something that is enjoyable or well written or both.
    38. Reverse_Flash
      April 10, 2018
      For whom?
      Anything can be enjoyable to someone.
3. NinjaGamer13
  April 6, 2018
  Why are you showing random pics of RT pages? You’re surely not trying to prove a point...
  1. Reverse_Flash
    April 6, 2018
    Why are you so triggered?
    1. Hunter Zolomon
      April 6, 2018
      He doesn't like facts.
    2. NinjaGamer13
      April 6, 2018
      I’m not. I just have a crush on you.
    3. Reverse_Flash
      April 6, 2018
      You're too young to have a crush my dear.
    4. Rust
      April 7, 2018
      https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
    5. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      Lol, I love this
J.K.2019
April 7, 2018
No business would spend more money on a product if it was good.Use your brain.Why would wb spend millions on lengthy re-shoots, New director, Composer, If Snyder managed to do the impossible by making a good movie?....
Royal Ruler
April 7, 2018
Indeed WB ruin DCEU by hiring Zack the hack. Forget the unwatchable Snyder cut!!!

Reverse_Flash

April 6, 2018

#NotMyFlash

https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

ItzSilentStorm
April 6, 2018
you know he doesn't look like that in the film. Though I do think he should do something with his hair. Barry tends to be a well groomed person. Would have looked better if it was like it was in that one pic Snyder shared where he had the glasses. Also, he does have a great superhero esque jawline
1. Reverse_Flash
  April 6, 2018
  I have the feeling that they chose him because of his jawline.
Kouglof
April 6, 2018
I've noticed that you don't like him because:
1. He's not blond
2. He's wearing a prototype suit and not his final suit
And now you are going to argument about the fact that his interpretation has nothing to do with the Geoff Johns' CB bubbles your red and imagined, and of course that all the misfortune root cause of the earth is related to Zack Snyder.
1. Reverse_Flash
  April 6, 2018
  More like:
  1-He looks nothing like Barry.
  2-They didn't even try to make him look like Barry. Basicly, they turned Barry into Ezra Miller.
  3-His acting was annoyingly bad (his awkward faces, poor comedy line deliveries, his big eyed surprised faces, etc. all lame and annoying).
  4-Even the way he runs looked ridiculous.
  The suit is meh, not a major problem.
  Overall they crapped over one of the most iconic DC characters.
  1. kan
    April 6, 2018
    Was that running? I thought he was doing competitive figure skating. huh
2. Hunter Zolomon
  April 6, 2018
  He's nothing like Barry though, he can't even pass for Wally, Bart or Jay. As for the Johns version of Barry well what's that got to do with things? Miller isn't even like the Silver Age yet alone Johns.
  Got to laugh how the biggest fans of Snyder are usually people with very limited knowledge of DC and comic books, yeah sure there's some on here who are actual fans of comic books and DC but they also don't make dumb statements and usually know what they're talking about.
  1. Seb is a Socialist
    April 7, 2018
    considerin grant morrison liked his portrayal u lose bud
    1. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      and? Morrison is hardly known for writing Flash, i would rather hear from people who actually write the Flash.
    2. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      and? hes one of the most famous comix writers bud.
    3. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      ?????????
    4. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      retard
    5. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      whatever u say bitch.
    6. TimTaison
      April 10, 2018
      Circle jerks
      Make him eat the cum
      Alpha male
  2. Kouglof
    April 7, 2018
    Your logic is literally: "I must know CM better than you cuz you like Snyder and I don't".
    1. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      No my logic is i've read and do read a large number of comic books what means i know more then someone who doesn't read as many or reads very few. End of the day you can barely put up any decent argument and act like a brat when challenged, when it comes to this yeah i know what i'm talking about because i'm a massive fan of The Flash and you clearly aren't so just accept that and grow up.
      and Snyder fanboys wonder why there's a stigma associated with them haha
    2. Kouglof
      April 7, 2018
      You're logic is literally what I've said, nothing less, nothing more. You came here to tell us how much the CB is your Bible, but at least a guy who know Bible give some references, so you can just add some lines from CB or images about things you disagree by a simple copy/past, but you don't (don't you have enough source material?), you don't prove yourself. I'm sorry but you looks like a boring guy from politics who never obtain what he wants, who always say how bad it's now without bringing any solutions. Have a nice day sir.
    3. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      You realize how weird that whole comment reads? Learn to put together a sentence please. End of the day i don't need to prove myself, i have logic and a understanding of how people work and how fanbases work so that's how i know i'm right especially when i'm rarely wrong. You want me to provide evidence? What do you want? There's a whole internet worth i can find for you.

UltimateEdition

April 6, 2018

All smiles. All class. All Flash.

OptimistPrime99

April 6, 2018

https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

NinjaGamer13
April 6, 2018
Oh my gosh they’re so cute I love this

Hunter Zolomon

April 6, 2018

Damn that's pretty sad to wear a T-Shirt saying that. Its weird how a mediocre director like Snyder has this cult like fanbase, funny thing is if Snyder was to announce he's quitting film making today i suspect give it 10 years this fanbase won't even give a shit about his films anymore.

Danny Rodriguez
April 6, 2018
lmao where did you come up with that "scoop"? your ass?
1. Hunter Zolomon
  April 6, 2018
  Its called knowing logic and how fanbases work.
2. Seb is a Socialist
  April 7, 2018
  *his mother's ass
myzterius
April 6, 2018
10 years seems like a stretch, next year seems more appropriate, when they realize that dc makes better movies without snyders "vision".
1. J.K.2019
  April 7, 2018
  Agree.
J.K.2019
April 7, 2018
10 years is too long.I say his cultist would forget about him after new DC movies starts to hit the theaters.
1. Seb is a Socialist
  April 7, 2018
  asswipe shithole
Hunter Zolomon
April 7, 2018
Only the Snyder fanbase give a shit about the film though, its pretty much forgotten everywhere else.
1. NinjaGamer13
  April 7, 2018
  I actually hear it in everyday conversation still from time to time, surprisingly.
Qthetar .
April 7, 2018
What’s a Watchmen lol.

DudeofSteel1Million

April 6, 2018

Another day, another comment section triggered by "Snyder Cut" stuff. lol

Hunter Zolomon
April 6, 2018
Another day, another comment section where the Snyder fanbase shows their age.
1. DudeofSteel1Million
  April 6, 2018
  Dude, come on. You know that both sides "show their age."
  1. Hunter Zolomon
    April 6, 2018
    At least the "Snyder haters" usually argue with facts and logic, most Snyder fanboys on here bend the truth and turn a blind eye to anything factual. I've seen Ninja deny and try to spin things when the actual truth has even come from the makes of the films themselves.
    1. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 6, 2018
      "Skewed" facts and logic, to be sure. They turn a blind eye and bend the truth with as much frequency as anyone else.
      And obviously, that's not to say that the fanatics don't do that - I mean, I don't agree with Ninja a lot of the times. For instance, I'm getting irritated how Snyder keeps dodging "Snyder cut" stuff, but will passive aggressively "like" negative tweets like Joss Whedon getting fired or snidely saying stuff like #untilitwasn't and a lot of the Snyder fans actively defend everything he does.
      That's the thing - when you stop thinking you belong to a "party", you see that every side of the spectrum falls into a bias.
      And to be clear, my OP wasn't even referring to a particular side anyways. I said the "comment section" as a whole.
    2. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      I agree with you. Both "sides" (and I also agree that we shouldn't feel like we belong to any "side", whatever that means) showcase petty behavior.
      I'm guilty of it myself.
      But what Hunter Zolomon said is 100% true. At least the "anti"-Snyder camp reasons with facts and logic.
      It seems almost every single conversation I have with Snyder defenders, and they are blatantly ignoring evidence, being dishonest, making up stuff that simply isn't there, drawing false conclusions, even going so far as shamelessly lying (including to themselves).
      Yes, everyone (or at least, a lot of us) here is guilty of immature behavior, me included.
      But I have never lied (doesn't mean I have never been wrong, but if I am, it's not knowingly and I won't mind when I'm corrected), I don't ignore facts. I'm not biased when it comes to the "evidence" that's available to us. I always try to be reasonable when it comes to the ACTUAL arguments being made.
      And I'm very confident in saying this is also true for most people on the "anti-Snyder" camp. And it simply is not for the Snyder fanboys. I'm sorry, but it really really isn't. And you can appear non-partisan and say "both sides do it equally" and while the sentiment of being an individual is great, that statement is nevertheless not accurate to reality.
    3. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 7, 2018
      I'm not denying that there are things that are simply impossible to defend that Snyder fanatics still try (like it's impossible to say BvS wasn't a box office disappointment of Snyder deserves no blame for the mess the DCEU is in). However, the other camp goes overboard as well by scapegoating Snyder for example as the sole reason of the DCEU failing and refusing to acknowledge other facts that might point to alternatives. For instance, I posted a lengthy timeline with citations and a "hater" completely ignored because it was "too long". Twas a witty and hilarious response, but it showcased how those in the other camp like to ignore facts and logic as well when it suits their needs.
      So yes, I can still say both parties are equally as guilty of acting like children. Not just here, but the interwebs as a whole.
    4. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      An exception doesn't disprove the rule.
      I realize this is coming across as incredibly biased, but ultimately, I'm very much capable of taking a step back, reflecting honestly about myself and others, and acknowledge the situation for what it is.
      I've seen those "ignored" responses... From what I can tell, it's usually just giving up after what seemed to be an unproductive conversation.
      I rarely reply with that, but I must admit that I have. For example with Hamani Omorah, because frankly, he wasn't making any sense and was so desperate for my attention, that I couldn't care less about having the last word. So I just said, "ignored. Bye" and that's it. I can't speak for others though, but from what I've seen, it's the same thing.
      I mean, you mention certain examples, but even then... Snyder IS very much who's the blame for the DCEU failing. I've seen no one say he's the "only" reason. But he is most definitely THE biggest reason. That's not even up for debate.
      You could argue WB interfered, and I agree that they screwed up... but if Snyder had delivered, as he was supposed to, WB wouldn't feel the need to interfere in the first place. In other words, WB's meddling is only a result of Snyder's incompetence. Why do you think they let Patty Jenkins do her thing? Because she's a good director and she delivered, unlike Zack.
      Seriously, at what point do his fanboys realize there's always one constant factor when it comes to DCEU movies sucking? The constant factor is Zack.
      Sure, there's Suicide Squad, but that proves my point as well. Ayer didn't deliver, therefore WB interfered. Looking at the situation honestly, and it becomes clear WB only interferes when they deem it necessary. Can you really blame them?
      Doesn't mean WB haven't made mistakes (Kevin Tsujihara is still a complete moron). But the point is, it's only due to Zack not making good films that WB made those mistakes.
      And this is the thing about Snyder fanboys. They pathologically REFUSE to accept Snyder just is not a good director (when it comes to critical and financial performance of his films). And WB isn't to blame for that. RottenTomatoes isn't to blame for that. Some grand "anti-DC" or "anti-Snyder" conspiracy isn't to blame for that. Snyder HIMSELF is. Snyder fanboys keep making excuses as to why his films keep getting trashed by critics. They delude themselves into believing he can do no wrong. At least with the anti-Snyder camp, many, if not most of them still acknowledge he has talent, just not as a storyteller.
      That's ultimately what it boils down to... Snyder fanboys can't even admit he's a very poor storyteller and frankly, sucks at plot construction and pacing. Which are such glaring issues, I honestly don't understand how they can ignore it so easily.
      Snyder "haters" still manage to praise his earlier work a lot of the time, whilst admitting he has (or had, depending on who you ask) a thing for visuals.
      You tell me which stance is more reasonable. Seems pretty clear to me.
    5. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 7, 2018
      Oh, come on man... It's not an "exception." I just listed a lesser transgression to stay on point with what you were listing, but not necessarily to say that that is the "worst" of what the other party does. I mean, I can list thousands of things the "anti-DCEU" camp has done in addition to that.
      How about the time someone doxxed my information and tried to personally come to my residence to attack me because I liked BvS and dared to call him out on being a biased liar? Or the time where someone actually threatened my family because "All Snyder bots must be rounded up to be shot" (and I'm quoting here - and believe it or not, he was actually convicted for another crime). Now I didn't say you or Reverse Flash or any resident anti-DCEU guy did that in this specific forum, but it just goes to show there are extremists on both sides. Hell, the Snyder fanatics here are TAME in comparison to other forums as well as I know they've pulled similar stunts on other outlets. I think a lot of people all know of the infamous "Andre" who is a known pedophile that happens to be a Snyder fanatic. So in hindsight, you really don't have too much to complain about here beyond a bunch of stubborn individuals who will stretch the truth and annoy people. So yes, I am able to see that both sides are equally as bad. And that goes for ALL fandoms in general, not just DC related fans. You have your logical fans - both for and against the subject. You have your illogical fans/haters who pathologically lie, stretch the truth and irritate others for their personal benefit. And then you have your extremists who are so far removed from reality that they will actually physically attack or threaten you if you dare to speak alternative to what they like or dislike.
      It's always pathetic to me when it's "But he said!!!" or "But she said!!" when trying to make one group appear more benevolent over the other as it's a petty quibble ultimately when both parties are equally guilty of being childish or extreme. That's just how fandom on the internet is. Get used to it.
      I simply LIKE what I like and DON'T LIKE what I don't like and can't be bothered to subscribe to one side or the next. Sure, we all have our biases - obviously, since I happen to love MOS/BvS, then of course I'd gravitate towards those that share my sentiments just as you or anyone else would for alternative reasons. But in the end, it's JUST A MOVIE. There are more important things to worry about.
      As for Snyder himself - I've gone into length about why he's not really the culprit for the DCEU. He's a scapegoat - granted, he's got his incompetences as a filmmaker that nobody can deny, but if you honestly think he's the main reason the DCEU is in a rut when all of his decisions have in some way, shape or form been studio mandated, then you're just a bit ignorant in understanding what's been going on perhaps due to a pure bias and need to pick a particular clear-cut person to point the finger at. And this goes all the way back to even before the DCEU kicked off with Man of Steel.
      And yes, you can also blame WB for letting Snyder get as far as he did in the first place. If a farmer deliberately lets a fox into the henhouse, then are you going to blame the fox for just following his instincts, or the farmer who let him in? WB could have fired Snyder ANY TIME they wanted. As a Snyder fan, I even AGREE that WB would have been wise to have let him go his own way after BvS disappointed. Sure, I won't agree that it was "all his fault" that BvS failed to deliver, but I will agree that Snyder isn't devoid of blame for that happening. Yet WB STILL kept him because they have an ego - they didn't want to "wait" for JL and they didn't want to appear "weak" before the public by firing someone like that, so they kept him. They gave him the "keys to the kingdom" so to speak - and in doing so, they also didn't even let him do what he's good at. For instance, Snyder is great at visuals and fight sequences. I think even we can agree to that. And yet what is one of the biggest criticisms of BvS? Wasn't it how disappointing the actual fight between Batman and Superman was? Or how underwhelming that final battle with Doomsday was? Now why would a guy who is KNOWN for delivering over-the-top action sequences that can impress even the most cynical of his haters suddenly come up short on something that's known to be one of his strengths? Especially when you compare BvS's action sequences to MOS - they're like night and day, are they not?
      Which is why it's also somewhat humorous to me when I hear how his JL cut was "unwatchable" when I'm sure at a certain point in time, it was probably EXACTLY what WB would have wanted - I mean, as far as reports go, they did give BvS a "standing ovation" after all. So how could they suddenly go from thinking Snyder is the king of making them good movies to thinking he's dead weight to jettison? Because they're reactionary and don't truly know what they want. Snyder at least HAD a "vision" for the future of DC films while WB looked at charts and polls and jealously looked on at the competition cluelessly.
      If you want me to elaborate further, I'll copy and paste my argument with citations detailing the timeline of how WB self-sabotaged their own franchise and that Snyder ended up the scapegoat and not the true "problem" that DC fans can point the finger at.
    6. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      Everything I said applies only to this specific forum, I thought that was obvious. I couldn't possibly hope to speak on behalf of millions of people commenting on YouTube, FB, Reddit, etc.
      I'm exclusively talking about Batman-News readers and commentators.
      I'm sure that people who hate Snyder post all sorts of moronic crap on other sites... But I don't see anyone threatening you or your family here.
      My point is, when it comes to "hardcore" DC fans, who actively go and search for these types of forums, the anti-Snyder camp is nothing like what you have unfortunately experienced elsewhere. And it is THAT group (on this forum), and none other, that I believe to be more fair and intellectually honest than the Snyder defenders, again, on THIS forum.
      End of my disclaimer, lol.
      "Now I didn't say you or Reverse Flash or any resident anti-DCEU guy did that in this specific forum, but it just goes to show there are extremists on both sides."
      Of course, but as I've just said, I'm talking about Batman-News ONLY. I'm not disputing anything you just said really. I don't think we were on the same page.
      Reverse Flash is probably the "worst" of us, in terms of trolling and acting like a douche. But that doesn't mean he doesn't make the effort to make sound arguments, because when he wants to, he can make fine arguments. And the extent of his trolling really isn't that bad anyways (compared to what you've experienced elsewhere).
      I believe this is because we all have the same common interest at our core. Which is everything DC and Batman related, obviously. Everyone here, even the "haters" want nothing but the best for the DC properties. Snyder haters on other platforms? Not so much.
      "I think a lot of people all know of the infamous "Andre" who is a known pedophile that happens to be a Snyder fanatic."
      I didn't. I heard of "Andre", but I never cared to look up what that name actually meant. You're actually the first to explain it to me.
      "when both parties are equally guilty of being childish or extreme."
      Yes, which I completely acknowledged. But NOT when it comes to honesty, using facts, partisanship, etc.
      Everyone has biases, sure. But as I've said, this is just one area where the two sides are simply not equal.
      "he's got his incompetences as a filmmaker that nobody can deny"
      And yet... 99% of his defenders here deny it regardless, which is exactly my point. They're not even willing to admit he's not the perfect second coming of Christ so many of his fans pretend he is.
      "but if you honestly think he's the main reason the DCEU is in a rut when all of his decisions have in some way, shape or form been studio mandated, then you're just a bit ignorant in understanding what's been going on perhaps due to a pure bias and need to pick a particular clear-cut person to point the finger at. And this goes all the way back to even before the DCEU kicked off with Man of Steel."
      I strongly disagree. WB didn't force Zack to litter his film with plot inconsistencies, terrible... fucking ATROCIOUS editing and plot construction, an overabundance of expositional dialogue (in MoS), relentless action and destruction, terrible characterizations, iffy castings, overstuffed plots (like TDKR, Death of Superman, and JL-prelude all in one movie, which is confirmed by Zack himself to all be his ideas), overusage of CGI, runtimes being far too long, etc etc.
      A movie is a movie. There are several stages of development, and different parts that make a movie, all of which is controlled by the director first and foremost. By proxy, Zack is to blame for all of this. The studio didn't force him to do ANYTHING, beyond perhaps force some JL references into BvS (which again, was partly Zack's idea anyways. He was the one to suggest BvS led to JL, hence the "Dawn of Justice" subtitle, which Zack came up with).
      The ONLY way for a studio to override what Zack did, is to interfere excessively and/ or change his vision, which is what happened with JL: studio mandated 2 hour runtime, and extensive reshoots made sure Zack had very little control left in the end. I see no one blaming Zack for this. Well, except if one makes the argument that if Zack hadn't fucked up as hard as he did, WB wouldn't have been forced to make those decisions in the first place, which is an honest argument.
      WB let Snyder do his thing, without any interference with MoS, and he had extra help from Nolan. Snyder failed to deliver. Then with BvS, he was yet again allowed to do anything he wanted. In the end, WB asked him to reduce the runtime to a reasonable 2.5 hours. Snyder should have known that a 3 hour Batman V Superman film was never going to get released by a major studio. He should've thought of this before they started shooting. I don't exactly blame WB for that. This is a smart business decision. Besides, if Zack had cut away stupid and pointless scenes such as the Knightmare scene, JL cameos, extended funeral scene (which was cut in the end), then he could've made a 2h40 to 2h45 minute BvS film, which could've been accepted by WB (considering TDKR was the same length), but no... Snyder chose style over substance, because those scenes were "cool".
      "And yes, you can also blame WB for letting Snyder get as far as he did in the first place. If a farmer deliberately lets a fox into the henhouse, then are you going to blame the fox for just following his instincts, or the farmer who let him in?"
      In this analogy, you are saying Snyder is destructive towards the studio. You're basically agreeing with me.
      "WB could have fired Snyder ANY TIME they wanted."
      And they should have after BvS. And they wanted to, but couldn't as I'm sure you are aware.
      "WB STILL kept him because they have an ego - they didn't want to "wait" for JL and they didn't want to appear "weak" before the public by firing someone like that, so they kept him."
      NOT true. They kept him because they were too far into pre-production and were about to start shooting. They didn't really have a choice. Either fire Snyder and lose tens, upon tens of millions of dollars, or keep him and go with it. WB lost no matter what choice they made.
      "And yet what is one of the biggest criticisms of BvS? Wasn't it how disappointing the actual fight between Batman and Superman was? Or how underwhelming that final battle with Doomsday was? Now why would a guy who is KNOWN for delivering over-the-top action sequences that can impress even the most cynical of his haters suddenly come up short on something that's known to be one of his strengths? Especially when you compare BvS's action sequences to MOS - they're like night and day, are they not?"
      I agree... But suggesting that WB somehow "forced" him to make worse action scenes is freaking laughable.
      I don't know why the action scenes were as disappointing as they were, but I'm sure that WB didn't have anything to do with that. If there's one thing WB may have asked him to do, it's to ease up on the destruction (which I think, WB didn't have to tell him that anyways. The fan outcry was bad enough), hence the "port is abandoned" line, and so forth.
      I just see no evidence of WB interfering with the action scenes. Even the action scenes in JL (Snyder's scenes) were equally disappointing.
      I personally think it's because Snyder has become too arrogant, especially with his delusional fanbase constantly stroking his ego to the point that he now believes he made some misunderstood epic, judging from his asinine Vero posts. To put it simply, I think he deliberately surrounds himself with yes-men.
      "Because they're reactionary and don't truly know what they want. Snyder at least HAD a "vision" for the future of DC films while WB looked at charts and polls and jealously looked on at the competition cluelessly."
      I agree with this.
    7. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 7, 2018
      "Everything I said applies only to this specific forum, I thought that was obvious."
      It was obvious in regards to the examples you were speaking of, but you were objectifying your examples as some kind of openly broad generalization of all Snyder fanatics that weren't just specific to here.
      " I couldn't possibly hope to speak on behalf of millions of people commenting on YouTube, FB, Reddit, etc.
      I'm exclusively talking about Batman-News readers and commentators."
      In which case, you are speaking of a VERY SMALL community of about a few dozen or more individuals who regularly post. So... Does that suddenly mean that Ninja represents the thousands of other Snyder fanboys or that you represent the other thousands of other Snyder dissenters? No, it doesn't.
      And in which case, then it's quite meager to speak of in general because it's too small of a sampling for it to be even worth pushing them into a group to whine "he said/she said" as proof of the other party's pathetic nature.
      "I'm sure that people who hate Snyder post all sorts of moronic crap on other sites... But I don't see anyone threatening you or your family here."
      Exactly. Because HERE is a SMALL community of a few regulars who comment one after the other to make up the 500+ comments that end up defining all the Snyder articles posted by Chris. I was stating examples of EXPERIENCE in general, since that seemed to be what you were doing due to the broad generalizations you were making.
      "My point is, when it comes to "hardcore" DC fans, who actively go and search for these types of forums, the anti-Snyder camp is nothing like what you have unfortunately experienced elsewhere."
      How can you say that based upon the SMALL group of individuals here? You don't have an adequate sampling if that's all you're exposed to. I've already stated that there are crazies on both sides and they go just about everywhere. You don't need to search high and wide to find them.
      " And it is THAT group (on this forum), and none other, that I believe to be more fair and intellectually honest than the Snyder defenders, again, on THIS forum.
      End of my disclaimer, lol."
      And what I'm SAYING is that you made it appear to be a BROAD spectrum that you were using as an example. And that's why I'm also saying that to use THIS forum here as your only evidence of why Snyder fanatics are crazy is kinda worthless because it doesn't even make up a percentage of the actual fandom as a whole. It's nothing more than a few individuals acting like children. Big deal.
      "Of course, but as I've just said, I'm talking about Batman-News ONLY. I'm not disputing anything you just said really. I don't think we were on the same page."
      I just don't see the point of labeling "groups" when A) as I said, it's a TINY TINY group and B) everyone here is acting like children defending or hating a friggin movie.
      I mean, really. Like I said, when I posted my OP about everyone freaking out over another Snyder article, that included EVERYONE. And it's the truth.
      "Reverse Flash is probably the "worst" of us, in terms of trolling and acting like a douche. But that doesn't mean he doesn't make the effort to make sound arguments, because when he wants to, he can make fine arguments. And the extent of his trolling really isn't that bad anyways (compared to what you've experienced elsewhere)."
      LOL Reverse Flash is hilarious. He's probably the most entertaining out of all of you, but he's also the most worthless when it comes to making legitimate points.
      And correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see ANY other users (Snyder fanatics or not) make freaking childish "lists" of the "worst posters" around here. Even Ninja doesn't do that. I mean, come on. That's not a good representation of "logical" or adult-behaving individuals. It's immaturity at its finest.
      "I believe this is because we all have the same common interest at our core. Which is everything DC and Batman related, obviously. Everyone here, even the "haters" want nothing but the best for the DC properties. Snyder haters on other platforms? Not so much."
      Not necessarily. Plenty of extremists will say it's because they "love" the characters so much that they do what they do. Doesn't mean it's true, but it's the go-to excuse. When you can claim you're a fan or an expert on something, it's like a get-out-of-jail-free card to say "that's why I'm right and you're wrong because I know what I'm talking about."
      "I didn't. I heard of "Andre", but I never cared to look up what that name actually meant. You're actually the first to explain it to me."
      Yeah, he's a nutcase. I always enjoyed it when he attacked me under the false assumption that I was a "hater" simply because I called him out for being a creep.
      "Yes, which I completely acknowledged. But NOT when it comes to honesty, using facts, partisanship, etc.
      Everyone has biases, sure. But as I've said, this is just one area where the two sides are simply not equal."
      To which I must disagree considering how everyone tends to act equally as childish or refusing to acknowledge facts/logic based on how it suits their needs.
      "And yet... 99% of his defenders here deny it regardless, which is exactly my point. They're not even willing to admit he's not the perfect second coming of Christ so many of his fans pretend he is."
      But to be fair, why SHOULD people who don't think he's not a "great filmmaker" have to acknowledge that? We all like what we like - it's impossible to deny that the DCEU is divisive. That's just a FACT of life. But to say Snyder is a "GREAT filmmaker" and then list reasons why you think he is, then there... That's just an opinion.
      "I strongly disagree. WB didn't force Zack to litter his film with plot inconsistencies, terrible... fucking ATROCIOUS editing and plot construction, an overabundance of expositional dialogue (in MoS), relentless action and destruction, terrible characterizations, iffy castings, overstuffed plots (like TDKR, Death of Superman, and JL-prelude all in one movie, which is confirmed by Zack himself to all be his ideas), overusage of CGI, runtimes being far too long, etc etc."
      Umm... Yes, they kind of did. Almost every single one of those things you listed is studio mandated. The atrocious editing of BvS' theatrical cut is caused by time-mandates, Batman even being IN BvS in the first place was WB shoving Batman in a Superman movie, the Death of Superman has been a film WB has tried to get out for DECADES on end and one which they've crammed in to the movies (even Superman Returns had an ending that was reminiscent of the Death and Funeral storyline), etc.
      And then the runtimes in general.... WB shouldn't have even ALLOWED BvS to be three hours in the first place if they were worried about lessened theater showtimes. But BvS UE was FINISHED and IN THE CAN - money all spent, visual fx all done, music, editing, etc. until WB got cold feet and ordered it to be cut down AFTER the fact.
      Now how can you blame Snyder for that? If he was ALLOWED to do that and WB forced him to cut it down after-the-fact, well then that's millions of dollars WASTED on a cut that they eventually didn't let out anyways. What the hell?
      "A movie is a movie. There are several stages of development, and different parts that make a movie, all of which is controlled by the director first and foremost. By proxy, Zack is to blame for all of this. The studio didn't force him to do ANYTHING, beyond perhaps force some JL references into BvS (which again, was partly Zack's idea anyways. He was the one to suggest BvS led to JL, hence the "Dawn of Justice" subtitle, which Zack came up with)."
      I might as well just copy-paste my argument just to clarify, so here you go:
      It's really hard to say that WB "had" to interfere in regards to the blunders that have been going on - or even whether or not those blunders even lie solely on Snyder's shoulders to begin with, even with the divisive nature of MOS and the critical thrashing BvS received.
      WB have been their own worst enemy for years on end - they expect to just "GET RESULTS" immediately without waiting and taking their time on anything.
      There's no reason a Superman Returns sequel for instance couldn't have made them a profit had they given it a chance to grow. Yet they PULLED THE PLUG pretty quickly out of frustration because they watched from afar with jealous eyes at Spider-Man rake in upwards to 800+ million while SR languished with 391 million. Alan Horn, former president of WB at the time, even said SR should have done "500 million" even though he thought it was "successful" ( http://gawker.com/195258/mo... ).
      Man of Steel was pretty much exactly the type of movie WB wanted in response to SR. Remember all the other pitches like "SUPERMAN UNLEASHED" which was to portray a darker and more violent take on the character? When Nolan came to WB with Goyer's pitch, it was pretty much the godsend for them apparently that contained the darker, more action-packed version of the character they so desperately wanted.
      ( https://www.wired.com/2008/... )
      After all, they've been TRYING to get a darker version since the 1990's with the thankfully aborted Superman Lives.
      Even disregarding its divisive reception and somewhat lacking BO returns, MOS was already doomed from the start with more overblown expectations.
      It was expected to make more than 1.3 billion dollars (according to former WB president Jeff Robinov) ( http://variety.com/2013/fil... ). Even if the movie was praised to the high heavens, I highly doubt it would have made that much. Even the most enthusiastic box office projections put it at about 650-750 million WW at the maximum (box office mojo forecasted 650 million [ http://www.boxofficemojo.co... ]) which MOS ended up landing in between. Again, Warner Bros. hastily freaked out and forced Batman into the Man of Steel sequel. Even Snyder seemingly lambasted the idea before the whole narrative of him saying Batman fighting Superman was "his idea" began to settle.
      ("It's too early for me to discuss the film. However, regardless of how I feel about Superman, ultimately I have to go along with the direction that Warner Bros. thinks is best".)
      ( https://www.supermanhomepag... )
      BvS, again, was pretty much exactly the type of movie WB wanted. It was a "Batman movie" disguised apparently as a Superman sequel. We all know the "reports/rumors" of WB giving BvS a "Standing ovation" by now ( http://comicbook.com/2015/0... ).
      We also know that WB mandated a heavily truncated version of BvS for the supposed reason of meeting a runtime quota to get more butts in the seats for extra showtimes. Yet there is another reported/rumored reasoning that's less than admirable, but quite believable considering how the Ultimate Edition's primary cut scenes were Superman's.
      ( http://www.slashfilm.com/ba... )
      Once again, WB flipped the hell out over BvS's disappointing financial performance, already breathing down Snyder's neck for the majority of JL's production and post production before his cut was "reportedly" unwatchable by their standards... The same standards that led to all the other divisive movies released under their watch that supposedly got their seal of approval.
      And now we see the result - a result borne out of jealousy and an innate desire to outperform the competition, not necessarily because they cared to give proper treatment to these properties.
      And ironically, the one time WB actually gave a superhero a chance to "find its footing", even with a somewhat ho-hum 372 million dollar intake, birthed their ONLY successful superhero franchise in decades (TDK trilogy).
      Now Snyder is not without blame completely by all means, but let's be real here in knowing who the culprit is for the debacle that has led to JL. I'd even go as far to say that there is a good chance we'd be in the same pickle we are in right now even if WB didn't choose Snyder as our scapegoat.
      And this is without me even mentioning the type of stuff they did to Green Lantern or other DC properties like Jonah Hex.
      "The ONLY way for a studio to override what Zack did, is to interfere excessively and/ or change his vision, which is what happened with JL: studio mandated 2 hour runtime, and extensive reshoots made sure Zack had very little control left in the end."
      JL was ALREADY under heavy studio mandates before they kicked Snyder completely out the door. We heard all about JL's tonal shifts and adherence to studio executives reshifting plans long before Joss Whedon ever walked in the door.
      Remember how one of the VERY FIRST things the studio did was invite a bunch of critics and press to the set who hated BvS to reassure them that things would be different with JL?
      Remember how JL was seemingly going to be 2 parts, but that talk got tossed to the wind once it hit production after the fallout of BvS?
      Remember how Ben Affleck apparently was reported to take a more hands-on role as an executive producer?
      Again, this was all before Snyder was fired, so the studio interference was already kicking into overdrive even before Snyder delivered his "unwatchable" cut.
      "I see no one blaming Zack for this. Well, except if one makes the argument that if Zack hadn't fucked up as hard as he did, WB wouldn't have been forced to make those decisions in the first place, which is an honest argument."
      No, it isn't for all the reasons I listed above.
      "WB let Snyder do his thing, without any interference with MoS, and he had extra help from Nolan. Snyder failed to deliver."
      Snyder delivered EXACTLY the type of movie they wanted - a darker take on Superman that was loaded to the brim with action. It was the "Superman Unleashed" they always wanted.
      But then they got greedy - expected him to give them a 1.3 billion dollar movie which is ABSURD even by the most optimistic standards.
      And MOS made them more than a fine mint in profits considering the uphill battle it had to fight - but it wasn't ENOUGH for their greedy standards. Not while they watched the MCU movies rake in billions.
      "Then with BvS, he was yet again allowed to do anything he wanted."
      That is just flat out wrong. I stated that above in terms of how even Snyder himself lamented how he had to follow what the studio wanted in terms of putting Batman in what was supposed to be a solo MOS sequel.
      Hell, the whole CONNECTED universe thing was WB's idea as well.
      Remember back in the day when MOS was to be the first in a "solo Superman" trilogy akin to Nolan's Batman films?
      https://www.youtube.com/wat...
      But then that all changed after 2012's Avengers smashed the box office. Then we started to see Snyder talk about Justice League possibly connecting to Man of Steel later on... But this was all AFTER principal photography wrapped on MOS.
      "In the end, WB asked him to reduce the runtime to a reasonable 2.5 hours. Snyder should have known that a 3 hour Batman V Superman film was never going to get released by a major studio."
      Why? They're the ones who let him do it, did they not? Normally, films aren't FINISHED with visual fx, score, color correction, etc. all done before a final edit is to occur. This is done DURING the process, or else that's a lot of wasted money as I stated above.
      "He should've thought of this before they started shooting."
      No, he shouldn't have. Not when he was allowed to do it beforehand.
      "I don't exactly blame WB for that. This is a smart business decision."
      Not really. We can see the result of that. We can ALSO see that plenty of big budgeted films do just fine with a lengthy runtime.
      "Besides, if Zack had cut away stupid and pointless scenes such as the Knightmare scene, JL cameos, extended funeral scene (which was cut in the end), then he could've made a 2h40 to 2h45 minute BvS film, which could've been accepted by WB (considering TDKR was the same length), but no... Snyder chose style over substance, because those scenes were "cool"."
      Completely "Opinion-based." We could argue for days over how those scenes were thematically important, but I highly doubt you'd want to do that.
      "In this analogy, you are saying Snyder is destructive towards the studio. You're basically agreeing with me."
      No, I'm not. I used that analogy to show that the studio knew exactly what they were getting when they allowed Snyder to come in. He didn't exactly have the best track record. His most recent movie prior to MOS was the flop known as Sucker Punch. The other movies he did weren't necessarily critical darlings either - so why would you suddenly expect an already divisive filmmaker to make you your "masterpiece" after all that?
      "And they should have after BvS. And they wanted to, but couldn't as I'm sure you are aware."
      Wrong. They COULD have - they chose not to. The SHOULD have - they chose not to.
      That's on them.
      "NOT true. They kept him because they were too far into pre-production and were about to start shooting. They didn't really have a choice."
      That's ridiculous and you know it. It wouldn't be the FIRST time WB let a director go so far into preproduction. Need we forget the Superman Lives or Justice League: Mortal fiascos? Or hell, even The Hobbit where Guillermo Del Toro left and Peter Jackson stepped in? It doesn't "LOOK" good on the studio to do that and yes, it is a financial risk.
      BUT.... When you think of the alternative, then it's a risk worth taking. Especially if you're going to neuter what the creative head CAN do successfully anyway until he's nothing more than you're walking puppet.
      "Either fire Snyder and lose tens, upon tens of millions of dollars, or keep him and go with it. WB lost no matter what choice they made."
      A choice which they made that ended up losing them hundreds of millions of dollars because they neither kept Snyder nor fired him in time ANYWAYS.
      They lost because they were idiots.
      "I agree... But suggesting that WB somehow "forced" him to make worse action scenes is freaking laughable."
      Not really. Think of the common complaints about MOS's action scenes. What were they?
      Too much destruction? Too long?
      What then, in hindsight, is BvS' common complaints?
      Too short? Too anticlimatic? Disappointing?
      Kind of the antithesis of the other complaints, right? And to top it off, how many times did they have to hammer into our heads how "abandoned" the spots the combatants were fighting in were?
      "I don't know why the action scenes were as disappointing as they were, but I'm sure that WB didn't have anything to do with that. If there's one thing WB may have asked him to do, it's to ease up on the destruction (which I think, WB didn't have to tell him that anyways. The fan outcry was bad enough), hence the "port is abandoned" line, and so forth.
      I just see no evidence of WB interfering with the action scenes. Even the action scenes in JL (Snyder's scenes) were equally disappointing."
      See, it just seems like you're looking for ways to scapegoat Snyder instead of opening your mind to other possibilities in terms of where these films went wrong. Again, I never said Snyder was this innocent little angel exempt from blame, but where I did list examples of particularly fishy aspects where even Snyder's strengths are somehow misused, then there is a problem BEYOND just "Snyder's just a terrible filmmaker. Figures."
      "I personally think it's because Snyder has become too arrogant, especially with his delusional fanbase constantly stroking his ego to the point that he now believes he made some misunderstood epic, judging from his asinine Vero posts. To put it simply, I think he deliberately surrounds himself with yes-men."
      See? Now that's just a broad generalization/assumption you made based on your hatred for Snyder.
      Snyder has been known by many to be quite collaborative. Nobody within the film community ever labeled him a control freak and he's not "big" enough of a name to even afford to surround himself with "Yes-men" like say Lucas was for the prequels.
      And honestly, Snyder's fanbase only started kicking in AFTER the JL fiasco. It's not far-fetched to assume he gained a lot of "cultists" due to the pity they felt for what happened to him during JL and the terrible tragedy he suffered with the death of his daughter. It's a little insensitive to say, but it's probably the truth.
      "I agree with this."
      At least we agree on something then. :)
    8. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      How many more times do I have to repeat this?
      I'm ONLY talking about THIS site.
      "So... Does that suddenly mean that Ninja represents the thousands of other Snyder fanboys or that you represent the other thousands of other Snyder dissenters? No, it doesn't."
      No and he and I aren't meant to. Because... I am ONLY talking about this site. That's why I believe what I'm saying has merit. Because there aren't an infinite number of people commenting here, so it's pretty easy to keep track. Unlike other places like YouTube where there are thousands of comments on each video, so it's impossible to keep track who's more mature than who.
      For the last time... People here on this site, the pro-Snyder camp simply are not as intellectually honest as the people on this site, who are more against Snyder.
      While I personally believe this at least reflects on the larger community on some level, I cannot prove or see it for myself, so ultimately I don't know. But that doesn't detract from what can be said about THIS specific - albeit small - community. Why is that so hard to understand?
      "How can you say that based upon the SMALL group of individuals here? You don't have an adequate sampling if that's all you're exposed to."
      I'm talking about this site... obviously.................................
      "And what I'm SAYING is that you made it appear to be a BROAD spectrum that you were using as an example."
      I don't think I did, but even if that were true... why are you so hellbent on yet again distorting my view and saying "it doesn't represent the whole", when I literally just explained myself, thoroughly?
      "to use THIS forum here as your only evidence of why Snyder fanatics are crazy is kinda worthless because it doesn't even make up a percentage of the actual fandom as a whole."
      It's not worthless to decide who's more dishonest... if we're ONLY looking at Batman-News, which is precisely what I'm doing.
      "when I posted my OP about everyone freaking out over another Snyder article, that included EVERYONE. And it's the truth."
      Doesn't concern my argument, frankly.
      "He's probably the most entertaining out of all of you, but he's also the most worthless when it comes to making legitimate points."
      Yeah, if he doesn't feel like it. If he tries, he can genuinely make sound arguments I haven't seen any of you refute. But that's off topic. But ultimately, I think his trolling is quite funny, at least you're smart enough to not take the bait and laugh about it.
      "but I didn't see ANY other users (Snyder fanatics or not) make freaking childish "lists" of the "worst posters" around here."
      To my knowledge, it's not been confirmed that Reverse Flash made that list. More than that, I have argued against it and said it was beyond pathetic, to which many of the "Snyder haters" replied with agreement.
      "Even Ninja doesn't do that. I mean, come on."
      No... What Ninja does is far, far worse. I can deal with insults, they don't bother me. I can deal with death threats, which I have received on this site on several occasions while NONE of you (the "defenders") spoke against it (in fact, that specific comment got a ton of likes). I'm not crying about it, because I don't care about that stuff. It doesn't bother me... But what Ninja does? Lying not only to others, but himself (and I have the evidence to prove it). Twisting facts. Being genuinely condescending and pretending he's smarter than everyone else. Ignoring reality. Being blatantly biased when it comes to the rumors he chooses to believe. The list does not end. I think these things are far, FAR worse than making a stupid troll list that nobody - not even the haters - take seriously. Why? Because that list is a joke. What Ninja does is not meant to be funny or trolling. He's being 100% serious, which make it far worse.
      This is what I mean... While the hater camp is definitely guilty of trolling and petty behavior (such as that list)... they are not blatant pathological liars, like Ninja is.
      "Not necessarily. Plenty of extremists will say it's because they "love" the characters so much that they do what they do. Doesn't mean it's true, but it's the go-to excuse."
      I disagree. Haven't seen anyone here who doesn't have a passion or love for these characters, especially Batman.
      "Yeah, he's a nutcase. I always enjoyed it when he attacked me under the false assumption that I was a "hater" simply because I called him out for being a creep."
      Wait... so the "Andre" guy, was a Batman-News commentator? Damn. So his whole pedo thing, is that a joke, or an assumption? Or was that genuinely true? What the fuck.
      "To which I must disagree considering how everyone tends to act equally as childish or refusing to acknowledge facts/logic based on how it suits their needs."
      Being childish is not the same as making up facts.
      Both sides are equally childish. Heck, most trolls are on the hater side, so they probably are a bit more immature. But when it comes to intellectual honesty? I don't think it even comes close.
      "But to be fair, why SHOULD people who don't think he's not a "great filmmaker" have to acknowledge that?"
      Because it's the fucking truth. Look at the financial and critical results of his films. To suggest anything other than he's a flawed filmmaker is the epitome of being delusional.
      "But to say Snyder is a "GREAT filmmaker" and then list reasons why you think he is, then there... That's just an opinion."
      No. Filmmaking is a job. This requires skill. And skill is objective. This is a huge debate I've had several times here (that skill is objective. Many people refuse to get that), and I'm not about to blow up this conversation even more by defending this point, so this is all I'm gonna say about it. Respond to this all you want, I'm not gonna bother with this one. It's been done ad nauseam, and, not to brag, but in the end, I proved my case in those debates, and most of my opponents actually acknowledged my arguments. Take that as you will.
      "Umm... Yes, they kind of did. Almost every single one of those things you listed is studio mandated."
      None of them were.
      "The atrocious editing of BvS' theatrical cut is caused by time-mandates"
      Which is the only exception... And even then, mandating a 2h35 hour cut isn't exactly unreasonable.
      "Batman even being IN BvS in the first place was WB shoving Batman in a Superman movie"
      Snyder confirmed he came up with the idea. WB isn't to blame (but they were probably happy with that idea, for obvious reasons).
      "the Death of Superman has been a film WB has tried to get out for DECADES"
      Snyder confirmed he was the one to come up with the third act in which Superman died. He went on how he had to explain it to the studio and how it would lead into his Justice League film. He also explained how he debated whether or not this was a good idea with Nolan.
      WB isn't to blame.
      "WB shouldn't have even ALLOWED BvS to be three hours in the first place if they were worried about lessened theater showtimes."
      This makes... no sense whatsoever if you knew anything about filmmaking. It's pretty much impossible to tell how long a film is going to be judging purely from the script. The assembly cut of BvS was supposedly over 4 freaking hours long. That's completely normal. It's at this point that the director is expected to "trim the fat" so to speak, and bring it back to a reasonable length. Obviously, BvS was always going to be a long movie, WB surely knew that, they're not idiots (well... you know what I mean). But they had no idea of knowing Snyder's director's cut was going to be over 3 hours long. That only became apparent when he finished that cut, which was a couple of months before release.
      "If he was ALLOWED to do that and WB forced him to cut it down after-the-fact, well then that's millions of dollars WASTED on a cut that they eventually didn't let out anyways. What the hell?"
      It's called a director's cut. Happens all the time. No big deal, as far as I'm concerned.
      "WB have been their own worst enemy for years on end - they expect to just "GET RESULTS" immediately without waiting and taking their time on anything."
      WB is a fantastic studio. When it comes to DC, they're pretty bad. But if they had actually gone with a proven talent, there's no doubt they wouldn't be in the situation they are right now. The only thing I blame WB of, is for hiring Snyder in the first place and "rushing" this universe. Everything in terms of RESULTS, I blame mostly on Snyder. Because HE was responsible for that.
      "There's no reason a Superman Returns sequel for instance couldn't have made them a profit had they given it a chance to grow."
      Umm, Superman Returns lost them money... there's no way a sequel would ever get the greenlight and deservedly so (and this is coming from someone who tolerates Superman Returns).
      "After all, they've been TRYING to get a darker version since the 1990's with the thankfully aborted Superman Lives."
      So what? Doesn't mean it's not Snyder who ended up screwing up that vision in terms of results. You're saying the premise is to blame on WB... thing is, nobody even had an issue with the premise. It's the EXECUTION of said premise that sucked, which is on Snyder.
      "MOS was already doomed from the start with more overblown expectations."
      I disagree. Avengers 1 had idiotic levels of hype and expectations. It still delivered (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like that film).
      "It was expected to make more than 1.3 billion dollars"
      Okay... you can keep bringing up these "sources", but they really don't prove anything. A credible source is for example a report. A study. An analysis. Not an article about some dude's opinion. When it comes to box office expectations, I truly don't care what WB presidents say. I care what box office analysts say. With the 120-ish million opening in mind, MoS was expected gross around 850 million by the end of its run.
      http://www.boxofficemojo.co...
      A far cry from the 1.3 billion stat.
      Pre-release, this number was much lower.
      http://www.boxofficemojo.co...
      They were expecting 650 million, which ended up being pretty accurate to its actual numbers.
      In other words, MoS unperformed because of its poor legs, which is a result of mediocre word of mouth. If MoS had been good, it would've hit that 850 million mark, and possibly even more than that. So no... MoS most definitely was NOT "doomed from the start". Snyder's incompetence doomed that film.
      "Again, Warner Bros. hastily freaked out and forced Batman into the Man of Steel sequel."
      They didn't force anything. Snyder confirmed he came up with the idea.
      "It's too early for me to discuss the film. However, regardless of how I feel about Superman, ultimately I have to go along with the direction that Warner Bros. thinks is best"
      Which could mean anything. Considering the whole TDKR influence, which was obviously Zack's idea, I just don't buy it. Ben's casting was also announced shortly after MoS was released. Meaning his casting probably happened BEFORE MoS' release.
      Even Jason Momoa said he was forced to stay silent for 5 or 6 years, and he said that either last year (meaning he was cast long before MoS was released). Gal Gadot said something similar. It's possible that they both screwed up and meant 3-4 years, but the point is, there's no sufficient evidence to prove it was WB forcing Zack. And just dismissing what Zack said is too convenient on your part.
      "BvS, again, was pretty much exactly the type of movie WB wanted."
      Not denying that, but that doesn't prove Zack didn't come up with the idea. And even if it did, he could've said no. But Zack wouldn't want to... Despite of what Zack says NOW, it's clear he doesn't care for Superman. Neither does he care for Batman, but he does love his precious Frank Miller material, and a TDKR adaptation would be too hard to pass for someone like him.
      "We also know that WB mandated a heavily truncated version of BvS for the supposed reason of meeting a runtime quota to get more butts in the seats for extra showtimes."
      Which is a business decision that makes complete sense. Snyder should've been less arrogant and know that a 3 hour cut was never gonna happen.
      As for WB wanting more Batman... That's purely a rumor and should be treated as such. Still, even if it were true, since Ben was the most praised aspect of that film (which doesn't say much), is this, again, a bad call from WB? Don't think so.
      "And now we see the result - a result borne out of jealousy and an innate desire to outperform the competition, not necessarily because they cared to give proper treatment to these properties."
      Sure. But neither does Snyder. He could've said no as well. That you seem to forget or ignore.
      But explain to me why WW did so well? Oh right, because it wasn't Snyder's.
      "JL was ALREADY under heavy studio mandates before they kicked Snyder completely out the door."
      So you say WB is to blame for letting Snyder do his thing. Now you are blaming WB for not letting Snyder do his thing. Pick and choose, you can't have both.
      "Remember how one of the VERY FIRST things the studio did was invite a bunch of critics and press to the set who hated BvS to reassure them that things would be different with JL?
      Remember how JL was seemingly going to be 2 parts, but that talk got tossed to the wind once it hit production after the fallout of BvS?
      Remember how Ben Affleck apparently was reported to take a more hands-on role as an executive producer?"
      Yes, and if Snyder had delivered from the get go, NONE of this would've happened. EVER.
      "Snyder delivered EXACTLY the type of movie they wanted - a darker take on Superman that was loaded to the brim with action. It was the "Superman Unleashed" they always wanted."
      NOT true. Sure, that's what they wanted. That doesn't prove Snyder succeeded in his EXECUTION.
      "And MOS made them more than a fine mint in profits considering the uphill battle it had to fight - but it wasn't ENOUGH for their greedy standards."
      MoS barely broke even.
      "That is just flat out wrong. I stated that above in terms of how even Snyder himself lamented how he had to follow what the studio wanted in terms of putting Batman in what was supposed to be a solo MOS sequel."
      That's what you made of the situation.
      "Hell, the whole CONNECTED universe thing was WB's idea as well."
      You say that as if it's a bad thing.
      "Remember back in the day when MOS was to be the first in a "solo Superman" trilogy akin to Nolan's Batman films?"
      Yes. So what.
      "But this was all AFTER principal photography wrapped on MOS."
      Yes... and also BEFORE MoS was released.
      "We can ALSO see that plenty of big budgeted films do just fine with a lengthy runtime."
      Not 3 fucking hours, unless you're making LotR.
      "We could argue for days over how those scenes were thematically important, but I highly doubt you'd want to do that."
      Ohh no... The Knightmare scene had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Batman vs Superman plot. That's not an opinion, it's fact.
      People say "it was to showcase Bruce's paranoia", which by Snyder's own words, was NOT the case, nor would that even make sense (why the omega symbol? why the parademons? why the anti-life equation? why the Flash cameo? etc). It was ONLY there for some moronic tie-in with JL. It was also confirmed that this ENTIRE scene wasn't part of Terrio's original script, and Snyder added it in midway through production.
      As for the JL references, not even you could argue there's "thematic depth" there.
      And the Funeral, sure... maybe there were some shots there, but the point is, it didn't "need" to be *that* long.
      "No, I'm not. I used that analogy to show that the studio knew exactly what they were getting when they allowed Snyder to come in."
      So you're saying WB let Snyder do his thing, knowing he would make them divisive at best, garbage at worst films, all of which underperform? That makes no sense. WB clearly had no idea what they were gonna get. If they did, they wouldn't have hired him. What I don't understand is how they didn't fire him after MoS.
      "He didn't exactly have the best track record."
      But at that point, it wasn't that bad either. Plus, WB is known for hiring the same people over and over. It's part of their studio policy.
      "The other movies he did weren't necessarily critical darlings either - so why would you suddenly expect an already divisive filmmaker to make you your "masterpiece" after all that?"
      Because Snyder had Nolan and Goyer, who just made TDK Trilogy, is why.
      ""And they should have after BvS. And they wanted to, but couldn't as I'm sure you are aware."
      Wrong. They COULD have - they chose not to. The SHOULD have - they chose not to.
      That's on them."
      Absolute bullocks. Several reports came out confirming (even just a few months ago) that WB wanted to fire Snyder right after BvS. But they COULDN'T, because production was about to begin.
      "That's ridiculous and you know it. It wouldn't be the FIRST time WB let a director go so far into preproduction. Need we forget the Superman Lives or Justice League: Mortal fiascos?"
      Just because it happened before, doesn't mean it's ridiculous. Look this up, WB wanted Snyder gone, but ultimately chose not to, which they regretted in the end.
      "A choice which they made that ended up losing them hundreds of millions of dollars because they neither kept Snyder nor fired him in time ANYWAYS."
      You're blaming WB for not being able to forsee the future.
      "Not really. Think of the common complaints about MOS's action scenes. What were they?
      Too much destruction? Too long?
      What then, in hindsight, is BvS' common complaints?
      Too short? Too anticlimatic? Disappointing?"
      Never am I going to believe WB forced Snyder to make the BvS fight "short". Btw, it's not short in terms of minutes. It's almost 10 minutes. It feels short because of its horrible flow, which is ALL Snyder.
      Sorry, this argument is fucking ridiculous and you know it. "Snyder, we want you to make the fights more anti-climactic and disappointing". Come on.......
      "See, it just seems like you're looking for ways to scapegoat Snyder instead of opening your mind to other possibilities in terms of where these films went wrong."
      No... this is just you being a fanboy and not being able to admit Snyder failed in terms of action scenes with BvS.
      "See? Now that's just a broad generalization/assumption you made based on your hatred for Snyder."
      No, it reaaaaaaally isn't. Snyder himself admitted he doesn't care what critics think at all. In fact, he says he deliberately ignores it. Then he goes and talks to his "fans" on Vero, whom you know damn well all kiss his ass.
      "Snyder has been known by many to be quite collaborative."
      True. He's also known to be obscenely arrogant and self-deluded. Like how he lies about his supposed comic book knowledge. For example saying "Batman kills people in TDKR, all the time", despite the FACT that he killed no one. For example him saying he has a team full of hardcore Batman/ comic book fanatics who wanted him to have Batman shoot KGBeast in the head, because "that's how it happened in the novel", despite the FACT that it never id. For example him and his wife saying how he's "huuuuuge" fan, despite the FACT that he said during Watchmen that he didn't like these types of heroes.
      It's BEYOND obvious that this guy has never actually picked up a mainstream DC comic in his life, and most certainly not pre-MoS, and knows fuck all about these characters in the first place. And the thing is? I have no issue with that at all. One doesn't need to be a comic expert to make good movies about these characters (*cough* Nolan *cough*). What bothers me is his dishonesty. Him pretending he knows what's best, despite the very obvious fact that he doesn't. This is proof that he's a very arrogant individual who it seems, continuously points the middle finger at people who DO know the source material better than he ever will. Also, his Vero posts, reek of arrogance if you ask me.
      "And honestly, Snyder's fanbase only started kicking in AFTER the JL fiasco."
      They have been sucking his dick ever since BvS bombed.
    9. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 7, 2018
      "How many more times do I have to repeat this?
      I'm ONLY talking about THIS site."
      I got that - But in replying to your previous post, I was exemplifying how broad you painted the pro-Snyder camp as seemingly representing OUTSIDE just this forum. Don't get mad because I pointed that out.
      "No and he and I aren't meant to. Because... I am ONLY talking about this site. That's why I believe what I'm saying has merit. Because there aren't an infinite number of people commenting here, so it's pretty easy to keep track. Unlike other places like YouTube where there are thousands of comments on each video, so it's impossible to keep track who's more mature than who."
      But that's just it, isn't it? BECAUSE there are only a few individuals here, then that makes what you're saying particular irrelevant because it's only a small sampling of people. So when you say "Snyder fanatics are the ones who act immature", then it's just bizarrely empty because you're only talking about maybe 15-20 individuals. Hence why it's a BROAD paintstroke to actually NAMING individuals because there's literally that small of group.
      "For the last time... People here on this site, the pro-Snyder camp simply are not as intellectually honest as the people on this site, who are more against Snyder."
      Again, stop getting bent out of shape because I pointed out your mistake in painting broad strokes of such a small camp.
      In that case, who CARES? It's a small sampling of people who frequent this forum who act childish in more ways than one. It's complaining over nothing... Kinda like making an "enemies list."
      "While I personally believe this at least reflects on the larger community on some level, I cannot prove or see it for myself, so ultimately I don't know."
      See, that's just it: it's absurd to think it reflects the larger community because it's not even a percentage sampling of it.
      "But that doesn't detract from what can be said about THIS specific - albeit small - community. Why is that so hard to understand?"
      Because you MADE it that way. You were speaking as a whole, not just the sum of this forum. But now that that aspect has been made clear, move on.
      "I'm talking about this site... obviously................................."
      This is ridiculous. See, this is why replying to someone on a quote-by-quote basis should be for specific purposes. I did it to point out WHY it wasn't so "obvious" that you were merely referring to this site, and you're doing it just to constantly repeat ad-nauseam things you already said over and over.
      I did it to make a point - you're just doing it to repeat yourself.
      "I don't think I did, but even if that were true... why are you so hellbent on yet again distorting my view and saying "it doesn't represent the whole", when I literally just explained myself, thoroughly?"
      Oh, my God... See, you're doing it again. Again, don't quote on a quote by quote basis unless you got something important to say/add to the conversation.
      "It's not worthless to decide who's more dishonest... if we're ONLY looking at Batman-News, which is precisely what I'm doing."
      Yes it is, precisely because it's a small sampling and you are using broad group processing. Just tell it like it is - there are a few individuals who annoy you and they happen to belong in the pro-Snyder camp. Stop acting like it speaks in general terms for the majority of people who like his work. And don't say you didn't do that, because you literally stated above that that's how you feel even though you can't prove it.
      "Doesn't concern my argument, frankly."
      Sure it does. Because it's that OP that started this whole debate in the first place.
      "Yeah, if he doesn't feel like it. If he tries, he can genuinely make sound arguments I haven't seen any of you refute."
      lol I've refuted him plenty of times, much to his chagrin. If he was up for it, I'd make a show of it, but he tends to avoid me, so it is what it is.
      "But that's off topic. But ultimately, I think his trolling is quite funny, at least you're smart enough to not take the bait and laugh about it."
      True. He is one funny guy.
      "To my knowledge, it's not been confirmed that Reverse Flash made that list."
      Dude, he's not shy about it. Ask him yourself. He'll confirm he did it.
      "I disagree. Haven't seen anyone here who doesn't have a passion or love for these characters, especially Batman."
      Do you know that for sure or are you just saying that because you happen to agree with them?
      "Wait... so the "Andre" guy, was a Batman-News commentator? Damn. So his whole pedo thing, is that a joke, or an assumption? Or was that genuinely true? What the fuck."
      To my knowledge, he is not a Batman-News commentator. He is on YouTube and used to frequent IMDB forums, which is where he was most notorious.
      "Being childish is not the same as making up facts.
      Both sides are equally childish. Heck, most trolls are on the hater side, so they probably are a bit more immature. But when it comes to intellectual honesty? I don't think it even comes close."
      I disagree, but then we are both admittedly biased on this front, so I'm just going to drop it from now on and move on. Agree to disagree.
      "Because it's the fucking truth. Look at the financial and critical results of his films. To suggest anything other than he's a flawed filmmaker is the epitome of being delusional."
      Who cares? What does that have to do with subjective opinion? People can think he's the filmmaker equivalent of Picasso and just go on living their daily lives just as LONG as they don't claim to speak for the majority. THAT'S when they can be called out.
      "No. Filmmaking is a job. This requires skill. And skill is objective. This is a huge debate I've had several times here (that skill is objective. Many people refuse to get that), and I'm not about to blow up this conversation even more by defending this point, so this is all I'm gonna say about it. Respond to this all you want, I'm not gonna bother with this one. It's been done ad nauseam, and, not to brag, but in the end, I proved my case in those debates, and most of my opponents actually acknowledged my arguments. Take that as you will."
      And how do you think filmmaking as an art developed? Or storytelling in general? There is no set way of really determining what makes it successful, only really internalizing it with how it made you feel.
      For instance, EARLY form of storytelling from the Greeks like The Odyssey was VERY DIFFERENT to what modern day storytellers would consider "good". The main character Odysseus had NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT whatsoever, but that was the NORM back in the day. That was what audiences EXPECTED because back then, if you are supposed to represent something, you had to BE that something and stay that way.
      "None of them were."
      This here is the epitome of what I'm talking about when it comes to quote-by-quote replies. If you've got nothing of value to say, don't say it.
      "Which is the only exception... And even then, mandating a 2h35 hour cut isn't exactly unreasonable."
      Yes it is for EXACTLY the reasons I stated. BvS was FINISHED and payed for. Mandate that BEFORE you spend the money allowing that to happen.
      "Obviously, BvS was always going to be a long movie, WB surely knew that, they're not idiots (well... you know what I mean). But they had no idea of knowing Snyder's director's cut was going to be over 3 hours long. That only became apparent when he finished that cut, which was a couple of months before release."
      That's ridiculous. All films need at least a rough estimate as to how long they'll be. Obviously, they won't always adhere to that time estimate exactly, but nobody makes a film not knowing if it'll be between 90 minutes or 180 minutes. You have to meticulously PLAN this stuff down to the microsecond. WB would have literally had to live under a rock during the entire editing process to NOT know how BvS was going and where it would likely end up on the time mark.
      "It's called a director's cut. Happens all the time. No big deal, as far as I'm concerned."
      Director's cuts for big budgeted movies tend to happen BEFORE films are 100% completed, not after. This is why you hear so many stories of directors and studio execs butting heads during the post production phase. It's very rare that studios allow directors to finish an entire film with completed fx, music, editing, etc. before they either decide to go along with it or pull the plug and make changes. WB got cold feet at the last minute.
      "WB is a fantastic studio. When it comes to DC, they're pretty bad. But if they had actually gone with a proven talent, there's no doubt they wouldn't be in the situation they are right now. The only thing I blame WB of, is for hiring Snyder in the first place and "rushing" this universe. Everything in terms of RESULTS, I blame mostly on Snyder. Because HE was responsible for that."
      Except that he wasn't - at least not in the magnitude you're suggesting.
      "Umm, Superman Returns lost them money... there's no way a sequel would ever get the greenlight and deservedly so (and this is coming from someone who tolerates Superman Returns)."
      It lost them money, yes. But this is based off the fact that they had past Superman ventures fall through as well, not just the film itself. And as Alan Horn said, he thought it was "very successful", but not up to their standards.
      And the sequel WAS greenlit and even went into preproduction for a short while, but WB got cold feet and pulled the plug.
      "So what? Doesn't mean it's not Snyder who ended up screwing up that vision in terms of results. You're saying the premise is to blame on WB... thing is, nobody even had an issue with the premise. It's the EXECUTION of said premise that sucked, which is on Snyder."
      Seriously? PLENTY of people had an issue with the premise. Tim Burton's a very good filmmaker, but do you think that would have saved Superman Lives from being a trainwreck?
      "I disagree. Avengers 1 had idiotic levels of hype and expectations. It still delivered (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like that film)."
      Oh, come on. Nobody expected TA to do as well as it did. Before it came out, many projectionists were thinking TDKR would beat it when it came to final box office numbers, but no one had it pegged for 1.5 billion.
      "Okay... you can keep bringing up these "sources", but they really don't prove anything. A credible source is for example a report. A study. An analysis. Not an article about some dude's opinion. When it comes to box office expectations, I truly don't care what WB presidents say."
      You should in terms of gauging what the studio expected from the final product. In which case, such expectations were blown way out of proportion and falls into my point of WB expecting too much out of the gate from their properties based on their iconic status alone.
      "I care what box office analysts say. With the 120-ish million opening in mind, MoS was expected gross around 850 million by the end of its run.
      http://www.boxofficemojo.co...
      A far cry from the 1.3 billion stat."
      Exactly - far cry by every means.
      "In other words, MoS unperformed because of its poor legs, which is a result of mediocre word of mouth. If MoS had been good, it would've hit that 850 million mark, and possibly even more than that. So no... MoS most definitely was NOT "doomed from the start". Snyder's incompetence doomed that film."
      Sure it was if that was truly what the studio heads expected from it. MOS obviously could have done better than it did if it had better WOM, but that's still excluding the fact that much too much was already expected of it in the first place.
      "Which could mean anything. Considering the whole TDKR influence, which was obviously Zack's idea, I just don't buy it."
      Why? Because it doesn't follow what is the accepted standardized narrative so you can blame Snyder for everything? He said that BEFORE BvS was officially announced. If everything was his idea, why would he even say that he has to go along with what WB wanted if he had total control?
      "Ben's casting was also announced shortly after MoS was released. Meaning his casting probably happened BEFORE MoS' release.
      Even Jason Momoa said he was forced to stay silent for 5 or 6 years, and he said that either last year (meaning he was cast long before MoS was released). Gal Gadot said something similar. It's possible that they both screwed up and meant 3-4 years, but the point is, there's no sufficient evidence to prove it was WB forcing Zack. And just dismissing what Zack said is too convenient on your part."
      I highly doubt they were all cast that early as WB even stated that they were waiting to see how MOS did before they moved ahead with whatever they were doing.
      It's not convenient for me to dismiss what Zack has said based on something he said PREVIOUSLY. Had he said that after the fact would have made things a bit more fishy, but this was BEFORE. What's troubling is how easily YOU dismiss what he said because of how it doesn't conform to the current narrative so that you can blame Snyder for everything.
      "Not denying that,"
      Good. Because that's a key factor in determining exactly who was in charge in the end of a lot of these decisions. As a studio exec, to go from "That's perfect! Exactly what I wanted " to "HOW DARE YOU DO IT THAT WAY! LOOK AT WHAT YOUR INCOMPETENCE HAS DONE" is just dishonest leadership to blame your underlings when you approved of it and encouraged it to be a certain way in the first place.
      " but that doesn't prove Zack didn't come up with the idea. And even if it did, he could've said no. But Zack wouldn't want to..."
      Exactly - because Zack is, for all intents as purposes a "Yes-man" for the studio. That's a big part of why he was hired in the first place - because he was easy to work with, could meet deadlines and could do as he was told.
      "Despite of what Zack says NOW, it's clear he doesn't care for Superman. Neither does he care for Batman, but he does love his precious Frank Miller material, and a TDKR adaptation would be too hard to pass for someone like him."
      See, I don't subscribe to that narrative. And this is all based off of what he said beforehand that came to light later on in regards to him saying stuff like Batman getting raped in prison or whatnot.
      "Which is a business decision that makes complete sense. Snyder should've been less arrogant and know that a 3 hour cut was never gonna happen."
      How is that arrogance when that's exactly what the studio let him do? If he was arrogant, he would have FOUGHT against them when they forced him to cut it down, but he knew his place and did as he was told. He even said so later on, but didn't hide the fact that he was unhappy about it:
      https://youtu.be/1Fsw42prfp...
      "As for WB wanting more Batman... That's purely a rumor and should be treated as such. Still, even if it were true, since Ben was the most praised aspect of that film (which doesn't say much), is this, again, a bad call from WB? Don't think so."
      Yes, it is a BAD call because it highlights what WB's problem is as a whole: They are REACTIONARY. They do things because they think it's popular. They are "chart-based", poll-looking, numbers-seeking without thinking about what best serves the stories the films are trying to tell.
      And yes, it's purely a rumor, but so is a lot of the stories we hear in regards to the goings-on behind the scenes that we've already taken as factual in regards to JL. It's a window into what might have happened behind closed doors. We'll never know the 100% naked truth, but we can read between the lines to decipher what could be truth and what couldn't be.
      "Sure. But neither does Snyder. He could've said no as well. That you seem to forget or ignore."
      But that's the whole point of me saying how Snyder is a "yes-man." That's why he was picked for the job. He is diplomatic and does what he's told.
      Now we kinda see him passive aggressively lashing out, but he's fired, so he's entitled to do so now.
      Even still, what he's doing now is TAME in comparison to the freakout filmmakers like Josh Trank had over Fan4stic.
      "But explain to me why WW did so well? Oh right, because it wasn't Snyder's."
      That's pathetic to think that's the ONLY reason that film did well. Superman Returns wasn't Snyder's either and look how that turned out. Green Lantern wasn't Snyder's and look how that turned out.
      In fact, both films were made by very competent filmmakers and yet they still collapsed. So it's deluded to think that WW only did well because Snyder wasn't in the director's chair.
      "So you say WB is to blame for letting Snyder do his thing. Now you are blaming WB for not letting Snyder do his thing. Pick and choose, you can't have both."
      Sure I can. Because my whole point is reliant on the fact that WB didn't let Snyder do what he was good at while still keeping him around neutered to still supposedly mess things up. So yes, they're to blame for both.
      "Yes, and if Snyder had delivered from the get go, NONE of this would've happened. EVER."
      And if WB had the foreknowledge to understand that Snyder wouldn't have delivered, they could have cut it before it got to this point.
      "NOT true. Sure, that's what they wanted. That doesn't prove Snyder succeeded in his EXECUTION."
      If he didn't, they wouldn't have had confidence in the film doing so well. In a similar vein, they wouldn't have reportedly given BvS a "standing ovation" if that isn't the type of film they wanted.
      "You say that as if it's a bad thing."
      I say that in terms of shifting perceptions/visions and expectations.
      And it kind of is a bad thing because MOS was obviously not a "shared universe" movie kickstarter.
      "Yes... and also BEFORE MoS was released."
      So? That just goes to show what kind of perceptions shifted during the production of the movie.
      "Not 3 fucking hours, unless you're making LotR."
      You do know that a handful of the most successful movies are near the 3 hour mark, right? And to say "unless you're making LOTR" is also a strange statement considering that before Fellowship was released, then the studio had no idea that their venture would prove a success in the first place, so they simply took a risk.
      Ohh no... The Knightmare scene had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Batman vs Superman plot. That's not an opinion, it's fact.
      People say "it was to showcase Bruce's paranoia", which by Snyder's own words, was NOT the case, nor would that even make sense (why the omega symbol? why the parademons? why the anti-life equation? why the Flash cameo? etc). It was ONLY there for some moronic tie-in with JL. It was also confirmed that this ENTIRE scene wasn't part of Terrio's original script, and Snyder added it in midway through production.
      As for the JL references, not even you could argue there's "thematic depth" there.
      And the Funeral, sure... maybe there were some shots there, but the point is, it didn't "need" to be *that* long.
      "So you're saying WB let Snyder do his thing, knowing he would make them divisive at best, garbage at worst films, all of which underperform? That makes no sense. WB clearly had no idea what they were gonna get. If they did, they wouldn't have hired him. What I don't understand is how they didn't fire him after MoS."
      I'm saying WB should have had the foreknowledge to know what they were getting when they let Snyder helm these films. I mean, it's bad enough that they let him in regardless given that his last movie bombed. They should have known better.
      "But at that point, it wasn't that bad either."
      Yeah, it kinda was. And this is me speaking as a fan of Snyder.
      Sucker Punch bombed, Legend of the Guardians underperformed and Watchmen kinda/sorta flopped as well. That's 3 non-box office hits in a row.
      I mean, fan or no fan, but if you were a studio head, would you hire someone with that track record to helm your Superman property?
      "Plus, WB is known for hiring the same people over and over. It's part of their studio policy."
      Then hire someone with a bit of a better track record at least financial-wise.
      "Absolute bullocks. Several reports came out confirming (even just a few months ago) that WB wanted to fire Snyder right after BvS. But they COULDN'T, because production was about to begin."
      No, THAT'S bollocks. Several WB executives indeed wanted Snyder fired, but ultimately the man in charge (Tsujihara) had the final say, and that's who made the decision to keep him on. Don't tell me they couldn't have.
      "Just because it happened before, doesn't mean it's ridiculous. Look this up, WB wanted Snyder gone, but ultimately chose not to, which they regretted in the end."
      Wrong. Several heads disagreed over whether he should go or not, but the man in charge had the final say in the matter. You look up the article again.
      "You're blaming WB for not being able to forsee the future."
      No, I'm blaming them for being incompetent and letting things get worse instead of taking action.
      "Never am I going to believe WB forced Snyder to make the BvS fight "short". Btw, it's not short in terms of minutes. It's almost 10 minutes. It feels short because of its horrible flow, which is ALL Snyder.
      Sorry, this argument is fucking ridiculous and you know it. "Snyder, we want you to make the fights more anti-climactic and disappointing". Come on......."
      No, it's not ridiculous because it is a direct addressing of the complaint of MOS having too much action.
      I mean, BvS doesn't even have that much action if you think about it anyways. Most of it is dialogue-heavy. Again, this is a far cry from MOS which had its first 20 minutes almost one-long action scene (Krypton's war, Jor-El vs. Zod, The Oil Rig, the bus rescue). Whereas BvS was just the Metropolis battle opening and a short stint in Nairomi.
      "No... this is just you being a fanboy and not being able to admit Snyder failed in terms of action scenes with BvS."
      How is it me being a "fanboy" when I directly admitted where Snyder's shortcomings were, how WB should have fired him and where ultimately his films fell short?
      "No, it reaaaaaaally isn't. Snyder himself admitted he doesn't care what critics think at all. In fact, he says he deliberately ignores it."
      Oh, please. Everybody cares about what critics think (unless you're Michael Bay). You see his face when the interviewers asked him about how he felt about critics crapping on his film? He was clearly not happy. He can SAY that and not mean it just to not have to admit it bothers him.
      "Then he goes and talks to his "fans" on Vero, whom you know damn well all kiss his ass."
      So? If you're in direct contact with a celebrity, are you going to shit on him to his face? I mean, really.
      "True. He's also known to be obscenely arrogant and self-deluded. Like how he lies about his supposed comic book knowledge. For example saying "Batman kills people in TDKR, all the time", despite the FACT that he killed no one."
      Oh, please. He said he killed that guy who held the kid hostage. And he never even acknowledged Batman "killing" in BvS in the first place (which I admittedly thought was ridiculous).
      "For example him saying he has a team full of hardcore Batman/ comic book fanatics who wanted him to have Batman shoot KGBeast in the head, because "that's how it happened in the novel", despite the FACT that it never id."
      Exactly. That's the only part. Stop stretching.
      "For example him and his wife saying how he's "huuuuuge" fan, despite the FACT that he said during Watchmen that he didn't like these types of heroes.
      It's BEYOND obvious that this guy has never actually picked up a mainstream DC comic in his life, and most certainly not pre-MoS, and knows fuck all about these characters in the first place."
      A) People can change their minds.
      B) People can go through phases, especially in the midst of whatever creative endeavor they're currently pursuing.
      I'm sure at the time of Watchmen, Snyder had no interest in DC heroes who weren't seemingly complex, but that doesn't mean he hated them all.
      Just because once I liked Batman better than Superman doesn't mean I can't say NOW that I like Superman 100,000x better than Batman (and believe me, I do).
      And here's another thing: I see this a lot in terms of haters discriminating Snyder for what he said in the past, but I have yet to see anyone either put into context what he's saying or at least gather enough evidence to the contrary by thinking things through without letting their personal vendetta get in the way.
      "Also, his Vero posts, reek of arrogance if you ask me."
      That's just you interpreting what he's saying how you see fit. I don't see his vero posts as being arrogant. I'm just annoyed that he can take the time to answer BvS questions now but buttons his lip on JL.
      "They have been sucking his dick ever since BvS bombed."
      Not to this extent.
    10. Seb
      April 8, 2018
      I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible because we're not getting anywhere.
      "Hence why it's a BROAD paintstroke to actually NAMING individuals because there's literally that small of group."
      Seriously, this is just getting petty at the point. I don't care if it's a small group. It's anything BUT a "broad" paintstroke, because it's not meant to reflect any particular group on a larger scale. If I say the people here defending Snyder are more inclined to certain behavior than the hater group, that says nothing, and shouldn't have to say anything really, about the larger collective. You keep hammering this point "but it's so meaningless", no. No, it's not. I can comment on the Batman-News community, and just because you think it's not reflective of the larger picture, doesn't mean a damn thing. It's all I'm gonna say about this, because this is just you being stubborn at this point.
      "Again, stop getting bent out of shape because I pointed out your mistake in painting broad strokes of such a small camp."
      I can't change how you perceive my comments. I'm not "angry" like you seem to think that they came across as something else. What I don't get is how you are STILL whining about this, 3 comments later when I have thoroughly specified what I meant. There's a difference.
      "In that case, who CARES?"
      I'm not saying you should care. I'm pointing out a genuine observation.
      "Kinda like making an "enemies list."
      I don't keep track of anyone's names, except for a handful of people. And I also don't hold grudges, so speak for yourself.
      "See, that's just it: it's absurd to think it reflects the larger community because it's not even a percentage sampling of it."
      Seriously.... just stop. I even said that I have no way of proving this. But just from what I've seen, I'm inclined to believe this is the case. In terms of honesty and facts, not in terms of behavior.
      "Stop acting like it speaks in general terms for the majority of people who like his work."
      I never fucking did so, mate.
      "and don't say you didn't do that, because you literally stated above that that's how you feel even though you can't prove it."
      Yes, but NOT based on this site only. Based on what I've seen on YouTube videos, etc.
      I also said I don't actually know, and I said it may only be true to SOME level. You're clearly ignoring and twisting my words, it seems for the sole purpose of justifying this temper tantrum.
      "Do you know that for sure or are you just saying that because you happen to agree with them?"
      No, this is a sentiment shared by pretty much all of us. Also, the way even someone like Reverse Flash talks about Batman's history and moral code (if he's being serious, that is) clearly proves a genuine interest and passion on his part. What's the point of visiting this site on a daily basis, if you're not into Batman? Come on... It's clear everyone here is a DC/ Batman fan.
      "I disagree, but then we are both admittedly biased on this front, so I'm just going to drop it from now on and move on."
      NinjaGamer13 is all the damn proof I need. There's NO ONE who even comes close. He produces more lies on his own, than the rest of this community combined.
      "Who cares? What does that have to do with subjective opinion? People can think he's the filmmaker equivalent of Picasso and just go on living their daily lives just as LONG as they don't claim to speak for the majority."
      First, MANY... and I truly mean MANY of you claim to speak for the majority. It's laughable just how they manage to claim most people liked BvS and Snyder, when the evidence against it is overwhelming.
      Secondly, I don't care about their opinion. I'm pointing out the facts.
      "And how do you think filmmaking as an art developed? Or storytelling in general? There is no set way of really determining what makes it successful, only really internalizing it with how it made you feel."
      So there's no such thing as good editing? Good plot construction? Good pacing? Heck, good visuals (you can't prove this with numbers, but suggesting that CGI quality is subjective is a moronic thing to say)? Good dialogue? Good acting? Etc.
      As I said, this is a MASSIVE debate I'm not going to get into. It's also quite a philosophical debate.
      It's a weird analogy, but consider this:
      https://www.youtube.com/wat...
      He argues his point with reason, logic and intellectual honesty. He doesn't argue it with numbers. That doesn't mean anything of what he says isn't factual, because it is.
      For example, what is "healthy" can't be proven with numbers. It's based on how one is FEELING, yet that doesn't mean we can't distinguish unhealthy people from healthy people.
      Similarly, his point on morality and suffering is undeniable.
      https://www.youtube.com/wat...
      Watch the 2:20 minute mark.
      My point is that it's simply dishonest to suggest subjective thought overrides anything and everything objective. This is most clear when looking at extremes. How can you possibly say Tommy Wissau is as good an actor and director as someone like Ben Affleck? There's no bullshit "subjective preference" rhetoric in the world that makes such a statement make any damn sense.
      Of course there's nothing wrong with PREFERRING Tommy over Ben. There's nothing wrong with PREFERRING his movies. But to argue he's as "good" or "better" at his craft, is blatant nonsense. As Sam said. I wouldn't know what you're talking about. And most importantly, you wouldn't either.
      Skill is objective. To make a film, requires SKILL. Not everyone is equal. This is why Spielberg and Scorsese have enjoyed tremendous success, while so many others haven't.
      "This here is the epitome of what I'm talking about when it comes to quote-by-quote replies. If you've got nothing of value to say, don't say it."
      Fuck no. What I said was FACT. NONE of these thing, except for the runtime, were studio mandated. This is a simple statement of fact. Also, this is rich coming from the guy who keeps bickering about nonsense that's got nothing to do with my argument.
      "That's ridiculous. All films need at least a rough estimate as to how long they'll be."
      Not true. As I said, the assembly cut was over 4 hours. I'm sorry but it's clear you don't really know how these things work.
      "nobody makes a film not knowing if it'll be between 90 minutes or 180 minutes."
      Sure. But that doesn't mean WB couldn't have believed Snyder was gonna make a 2h40 film, even if he eventually ended up making a 3h one. The difference is far too small to be noticed early into development. If I remember correctly, Dark Knight Rises had an assembly cut north of 4 hours as well. Yet Nolan managed to bring it down to 2h40. This is what I'm getting at, WB couldn't have known this.
      Besides, most of what Snyder cut away were character scenes that didn't really involve that many effects. Even the music isn't original during those scenes, they are extended versions (meaning, repeated patterns = doesn't require any work on the composer's part) of the tracks that can be found on the soundtrack. So those scenes really didn't cost much to produce or finish, so your whole argument of "they approved the 3 hour cut" is mute and meaningless, really.
      Also, finished visual effects shot are cut away right before release ALL the time. The theatrical version of any particular film is usually only finished days or a few weeks before its release. You saying "but WB already let Snyder make a 3 hour version" proves nothing.
      "You have to meticulously PLAN this stuff down to the microsecond. WB would have literally had to live under a rock during the entire editing process to NOT know how BvS was going and where it would likely end up on the time mark."
      Completely untrue. Assembly cuts rarely resemble the final product, in terms of construction, editing and most importantly, runtime. There's absolutely no way of planning how long exactly a movie is gonna be "to the microsecond". This is just you being ignorant to moviemaking.
      "Except that he wasn't - at least not in the magnitude you're suggesting."
      Yet you accuse me of making pointless replies.
      "as Alan Horn said, he thought it was "very successful", but not up to their standards."
      Again, I don't care what some studio guy says about something. Charles Roven also said that MoS and BvS were huge successes when both of them barely broke even (especially MoS). As you said, WB are too proud to admit to fucked up. This isn't any different for Superman Returns.
      "Seriously? PLENTY of people had an issue with the premise."
      Box office predictions prove otherwise. The hype, as per your own words, prove otherwise. MoS projected to gross more than 850 million after its opening (which is before word of mouth has a chance to spread) proves otherwise.
      "Oh, come on. Nobody expected TA to do as well as it did."
      Exactly my point. Despite levels of hype that far exceeded MoS', it still made EVEN MORE than it was projected to. So your whole argument of "it was doomed from the start" just doesn't add up.
      "You should in terms of gauging what the studio expected from the final product."
      Aren't you the one who just complained all this time that a small group cannot and should not reflect the collective as a whole? Now you're quote-mining ONE freaking dude, and pretending it's representative of the whole damn studio.
      Also, this is just fancy-talk on his part, as far as I'm concerned. NO ONE in their right minds thought MoS was going to make 1.3 billion.
      "Why? Because it doesn't follow what is the accepted standardized narrative so you can blame Snyder for everything?"
      No, because both statements aren't mutually exclusive. Snyder still could've come up with the idea, with WB telling him how they wanted him to execute that idea. Also, why is that your conclusion anyways? Because it doesn't follow what is the accepted standardized fanboy narrative so you can blame WB for everything?
      See how that works?
      "He said that BEFORE BvS was officially announced."
      The article says it's after BvS was announced, unless I missed something.
      "I highly doubt they were all cast that early as WB even stated that they were waiting to see how MOS did before they moved ahead with whatever they were doing."
      So what. So you're dismissing comments from the cast because it doesn't fit your narrative. But I'm not allowed to say Zack's comments aren't conclusive, whilst I don't even dismiss them. Casting could've happened, doesn't mean they have to go through with it.
      "could meet deadlines and could do as he was told."
      Zack most certainly cannot do what he's told. He didn't deliver. Seriously, if you fail at your job, are you going to blame your employer and say "well, you told me to do this"? No... It's the RESULTS that matter. The result is entirely dependent on you.
      "See, I don't subscribe to that narrative. And this is all based off of what he said beforehand that came to light later on in regards to him saying stuff like Batman getting raped in prison or whatnot."
      The irony in you complaining about me supposedly "dismissing" his comments (comments I never actually dismissed anyways), whilst you blatantly dismiss actual statements he made. Btw, it's not just his asinine "Batman raped" comments. He has said loads of shit that prove he knows nothing about these characters.
      "Now we kinda see him passive aggressively lashing out, but he's fired, so he's entitled to do so now."
      He's entitled to do whatever he wants. But he's showing his true colors. And he comes across as arrogant and frankly, a pretentious pseudo-intellectual pretending to be way smarter than he actually is.
      "Josh Trank had over Fan4stic."
      That was anger, not arrogance or pretension.
      "That's pathetic to think that's the ONLY reason that film did well."
      Dude... My point is, it's the SAME studio. The difference is, Patty is a good director, Zack isn't. So blaming everything on the studio and saying they're the ones fucking everything up, means you have to ignore WW, because that film overperformed both critically and financially. Doesn't mean I'm actually saying a film that's not made by Snyder is automatically good. It's just that you seem to happily ignore every film he's made has been bad, when Zack is the constant factor, NOT WB (which is proved by WW).
      "And if WB had the foreknowledge to understand that Snyder wouldn't have delivered, they could have cut it before it got to this point."
      I think it's funny that in order to defend your point, you are basically agreeing with me that Snyder is a bad director.
      "If he didn't, they wouldn't have had confidence in the film doing so well."
      They had confidence because they were coming off Nolan's TDK Trilogy. Besides, WB's projections for BvS were extremely low and they knew the movie was bad. They had no confidence in the film at all.
      "You do know that a handful of the most successful movies are near the 3 hour mark, right?"
      Exceptions that prove the rule, mate.
      "I mean, fan or no fan, but if you were a studio head, would you hire someone with that track record to helm your Superman property?"
      Of course not, but they had Nolan (which is the only reason as to why MoS had so much hype anyways).
      "No, THAT'S bollocks. Several WB executives indeed wanted Snyder fired, but ultimately the man in charge (Tsujihara) had the final say, and that's who made the decision to keep him on. Don't tell me they couldn't have."
      You're basically confirming my point. I should specify, they technically "could" have, but that doesn't mean Kevin didn't want to. They simply decided to go with it, because as per the freaking reports, they were too far into development.
      "Several heads disagreed over whether he should go or not, but the man in charge had the final say in the matter."
      This is exactly my point. It had nothing to do with WB being too full of themselves and too arrogant to believe the fucked up, which is what you said. Don't backtrack.
      "No, it's not ridiculous because it is a direct addressing of the complaint of MOS having too much action."
      Dude... the entire third act of BvS was nothing BUT action. BvS action scenes weren't "too short"... they were simply uninspired, disappointing and boring.
      "How is it me being a "fanboy" when I directly admitted where Snyder's shortcomings were, how WB should have fired him and where ultimately his films fell short?"
      Because you refuse to acknowledge the bad results of his films are a result of Snyder's incompetence.
      "Oh, please. Everybody cares about what critics think (unless you're Michael Bay). You see his face when the interviewers asked him about how he felt about critics crapping on his film? He was clearly not happy. He can SAY that and not mean it just to not have to admit it bothers him."
      That was AFTER he said that. Before the reviews came out, he said those things. Sure it affected him, but my point is that Zack doesn't reflect on what makes him a divisive director. Which makes him unable to improve.
      "If you're in direct contact with a celebrity, are you going to shit on him to his face? I mean, really."
      If I had a Vero account, I would certainly be honest, yes.
      "Oh, please. He said he killed that guy who held the kid hostage."
      No. He LITERALLY said Batman kills people in TDKR "all the time". And also, even if it was just that kid, it just goes to prove this guy doesn't give a fuck about the context and story of the novel. He just looks at the panels and believes he has it all figured out.
      "And he never even acknowledged Batman "killing" in BvS in the first place "
      I know of what interview you speak. And that clarification is fucking laughable on his part.
      "Ohh, Batman wouldn't see throwing grenades at people as killing him. He wouldn't see driving the Batmobile on top of defenseless goons as killing people. He wouldn't see shooting people to shreds as killing people. He wouldn't see blowing up cars with people in them as killing people. He would just think 'They shouldn't have been near the explosion', because after all, it's the bullet that kills people, and not the shooter. It's not Batman's problem".
      I seriously don't understand how ANYONE calling themselves a Batman fan can defend a guy who does nothing but crap on Batman's legacy and destroy anything and everything the character was originally about.
      "Exactly. That's the only part. Stop stretching."
      But it PROVES that he doesn't know what he's talking about. It proves he's lying out of his ass. And he does it so shamelessly. He does it, from a place of self-deluded authority with him constantly saying he's a huge DC fan. That is clear proof of arrogance on his part.
      "A) People can change their minds.
      B) People can go through phases, especially in the midst of whatever creative endeavor they're currently pursuing."
      Oh please....
      Pre-MoS:
      Snyder: "I don't like these heroes. Never connected with them. As a kid, I was like wow, they don't kill and have sex. Not for me. Not dark enough. My Batman could get raped. That's dark".
      Hired for MoS:
      Snyder: "MY FAVORITE HERO IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN SUPERMAN!!!!"
      Give me a break.
      Don't tell me Snyder changed his mind in 2 years and completely caught up with the comics in that time period.
      "That's just you interpreting what he's saying how you see fit."
      Funny, reminds me of you.
    11. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 8, 2018
      "I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible because we're not getting anywhere."
      No, we weren't. But to be fair, that's why it's important to weigh when it's appropriate to do a quote-by-quote reply. You were losing your temper with my lengthy post because you were treating it like I was talking to you in real-time.
      "Seriously, this is just getting petty at the point. I don't care if it's a small group."
      This is EXACTLY why I said "if you have nothing to add, don't say anything" in regards to quote-by-quote replies. I thought we had a somewhat respectful conversation going on in regards to trolling around these parts, but again, you lost your temper as if you were speaking to me in real-time.
      "It's anything BUT a "broad" paintstroke, because it's not meant to reflect any particular group on a larger scale. If I say the people here defending Snyder are more inclined to certain behavior than the hater group, that says nothing, and shouldn't have to say anything really, about the larger collective."
      Why not? You're hammering a "group" for being a certain way as a whole, which is the definition of a "broad paintstroke." Had you just limited to a few Snyder fanboy individuals who reside here instead of acting like they spoke for a larger community, it wouldn't be a problem.
      "You keep hammering this point "but it's so meaningless", no. No, it's not. I can comment on the Batman-News community, and just because you think it's not reflective of the larger picture, doesn't mean a damn thing. It's all I'm gonna say about this, because this is just you being stubborn at this point."
      But it IS meaningless because the community is so small. You can comment on it all you like as this forum is quite flexible in allowing individuals to argue, troll and whatnot without moderation, but I'm going to call it like I see it just as you do. And that makes me just as stubborn as you.
      "I can't change how you perceive my comments. I'm not "angry" like you seem to think that they came across as something else. What I don't get is how you are STILL whining about this, 3 comments later when I have thoroughly specified what I meant. There's a difference."
      Because you're the one who got all bent out of shape in the first place based on a misunderstanding. You clarified that you were talking about this forum specifically and I pointed out WHY it was coming across a different way. It was your choice to respond quote-by-quote to what I said when at that point, I was already over the little misunderstanding. In which case, that's why, 3 comments later, we're still talking about this particular subject.
      "I'm not saying you should care. I'm pointing out a genuine observation."
      It's an observation based on a few individuals, however. One in which does not even reflect too much on even the small community we have here.
      In fact, another observation would conclude that a lot of the hater community seemingly has more time on their hands and are much more dedicated posters. That's why they seemingly "win" every argument simply because they get the last word in. Seems like, apart from people like Ninja, there are a lot of Snyder fans who come here, leave a comment or two and then get out of a dodge, not searching for a lengthy debate. Which is funny because Reverse Flash specifically hates me BECAUSE I showed I was just as determined as him to "get the last word", hence why that's my description under his enemy list. lol
      "I don't keep track of anyone's names, except for a handful of people."
      Kind of counter-intuitive, don't you think?
      To say you don't keep track of anyone's names and then say "except for a handful of people." So... You do in fact keep track.
      "And I also don't hold grudges, so speak for yourself."
      I think in many ways, everyone holds a grudge in some way, shape or form. And it's basic human psychology so that we remember those who wronged us. In a message forum, holding a grudge seems petty since it's "words of a screen." But it happens regardless.
      It's clear that, for example, you hold a grudge against NinjaGamer as he's your constant punching bag you make an example of.
      "Seriously.... just stop. I even said that I have no way of proving this. But just from what I've seen, I'm inclined to believe this is the case. In terms of honesty and facts, not in terms of behavior."
      But that's just such a sad way of thinking in terms of determining the basis of a fanbase just because a few individuals on one forum act out a certain way.
      Just because, for instance, a pedophile (Andre) is a fanboy of Snyder, that doesn't mean he represents others. I ain't no pedo. And I'm sure a good portion of the rest of the fanbase isn't either.
      "I never fucking did so, mate."
      See, this is what I'm talking about - you're losing your temper as if you were speaking to me in real-time RIGHT HERE.
      "Yes, but NOT based on this site only. Based on what I've seen on YouTube videos, etc.
      I also said I don't actually know, and I said it may only be true to SOME level. You're clearly ignoring and twisting my words, it seems for the sole purpose of justifying this temper tantrum."
      Except I wasn't the one losing my temper. You were. I stated my plight and was going to let it be, but you keep bringing it up again.
      I didn't twist your words at all. I stated what it seemed to be you were implying and spoke of why it seemingly was offhand.
      "No, this is a sentiment shared by pretty much all of us. Also, the way even someone like Reverse Flash talks about Batman's history and moral code (if he's being serious, that is) clearly proves a genuine interest and passion on his part. What's the point of visiting this site on a daily basis, if you're not into Batman? Come on... It's clear everyone here is a DC/ Batman fan."
      It's very easy to "pretend" you're a fan of something and then substitute your knowledge with a few quick visits to wikipedia.
      I've seen plenty (not just related to this site) of people flaunt how knowledgeable they are of Superman and claim to be a fan and catch them in a rut where their knowledge really is skewed or simply not there at all because they don't actually care beyond the semantics.
      I've always hated the "you're not a real fan if you don't like such and such" or "if you LIKE such and such" because fandom in general will not always agree on what represents the certain element they're liking. But I also despise it when people use "I'm a fan" as a crutch so that they can belittle other people for what they like or dislike just so they can flaunt their opinion around while seeming a "part" of the community.
      Now I'm not necessarily saying you and the like aren't "fans," but it's not enough to just say "if we're on Batman News, then we obviously like Batman" or whatnot.
      "NinjaGamer13 is all the damn proof I need. There's NO ONE who even comes close. He produces more lies on his own, than the rest of this community combined."
      See, this is exactly what I'm talking about - you're letting your hate of NinjaGamer pretty much inform what you think of the rest of Snyder's fans. It's ONE GUY.
      "All the proof you need."
      In which case, is the individuals who doxxed my information because they wanted to fight me in person all the proof I need to say that you Snyder haters are crazy lunatics?
      "First, MANY... and I truly mean MANY of you claim to speak for the majority. It's laughable just how they manage to claim most people liked BvS and Snyder, when the evidence against it is overwhelming.
      Secondly, I don't care about their opinion. I'm pointing out the facts."
      ....."Pointing out facts."
      No, you're pointing out your own personal observations based in a steep bias. Don't deny it. That's not "facts". That's a POV. There is a difference. There's a reason news reporters are told not to get "Too close to the story" because if they do, there goes their objective viewpoint.
      And secondly, if I was to use my own "admittedly biased" POV as well and pass it off as fact, then I could say, based on my own observations, that plenty of Snyder fans KNOW they operate within a small, but vocal minority, but that doesn't stop them from liking what they like, which is commendable.
      "So there's no such thing as good editing? Good plot construction? Good pacing? Heck, good visuals (you can't prove this with numbers, but suggesting that CGI quality is subjective is a moronic thing to say)? Good dialogue? Good acting? Etc."
      And where did "good editing, plot construction, pacing, etc." come from? It wasn't an art form that developed over night. All of these things are still very much subjective matters or else there wouldn't be films out there that gain notoriety and respect over-time.
      Films like The Exorcist and Blade Runner became respected, but the critics at the time did not appreciate them. Did that make them wrong? Or was their reaction simply steeped in a time where such films weren't actually recognized as being the standard of "good?"
      And can we now look back on, say the filmography of George Melies and say "A Trip to the Moon" sucks because there is no character development or good editing and plot construction?
      "As I said, this is a MASSIVE debate I'm not going to get into. It's also quite a philosophical debate."
      You're right - which is WHY people need to consider how subjective this is before trying to debate it at all because there are numerous pitfalls to doing so.
      "He argues his point with reason, logic and intellectual honesty. He doesn't argue it with numbers. That doesn't mean anything of what he says isn't factual, because it is.
      For example, what is "healthy" can't be proven with numbers. It's based on how one is FEELING, yet that doesn't mean we can't distinguish unhealthy people from healthy people."
      It's definitely an interesting watch/listen to be sure. However, health and film are still two different coins because one is still far more based in the subjective realm while the other isn't.
      How we feel about film is a "feeling" not like how we feel when we are sick or tired or in poor or good health.
      "My point is that it's simply dishonest to suggest subjective thought overrides anything and everything objective. This is most clear when looking at extremes."
      Not necessarily when you look at how some of what is considered to be the best forms of art came from people with the subjective thought to think OUTSIDE the box. If people didn't differentiate from the norm, we wouldn't have abstract art, we wouldn't have romanticism, etc. When these forms first came about, people HATED them because they were unconventional at the time. But as they developed, they grew to be accepted and nowadays, we don't think twice about them for the most part.
      Yet there are still plenty of people who will look at an abstract artist's work that is physically nothing more than a green cube in a red space and exclaim, "THAT'S ART?"
      It's true that there are extreme cases, but in the end, it really is quite a subjective medium.
      "How can you possibly say Tommy Wissau is as good an actor and director as someone like Ben Affleck? There's no bullshit "subjective preference" rhetoric in the world that makes such a statement make any damn sense.
      Of course there's nothing wrong with PREFERRING Tommy over Ben. There's nothing wrong with PREFERRING his movies. But to argue he's as "good" or "better" at his craft, is blatant nonsense. As Sam said. I wouldn't know what you're talking about. And most importantly, you wouldn't either."
      Based on the norm, of course it's BS. But like I said above, what informs what "good acting" is has developed over a substantial period of time. You can't necessarily look back at King Kong and say "Oh, what bad actors... Look at how badly they overact with their body language and vocal inflection." But at the time, that was GOOD acting because it came from the stage, which required and still requires actors to project their whole body and vocal inflection so that people from the back of the audience can see and hear them just as well as people in the front.
      Like I said, it's obvious that there are extremes. It's OBVIOUS people can and justifiably laugh at you if you say Wiseau is a better actor/director than Affleck. But that's not to say someone CAN'T argue against it. Sure, they'd be laughed at, but if that's how they feel, I don't think even a mental doctor can necessarily prove they're clinically insane if they exhibit no other radical mentalities.
      "Skill is objective. To make a film, requires SKILL. Not everyone is equal. This is why Spielberg and Scorsese have enjoyed tremendous success, while so many others haven't."
      True, but skill doesn't necessarily = success or even really measure talent. There are plenty of people who just "have it" intrinsically. It's why a person who desires to sing well can take a million vocal lessons and still not be as good as a guy who didn't have to take a single lesson, and yet he sings like an angel.
      And SKILL is not necessarily that good of a measure of talent either. You can be technically astute in filmmaking, but not have an ounce of "feeling" in your bones, which is why your films still come off as hollow and lifeless. That's why a filmmaker like Spielberg, despite his mostly good track record still churns out a "terrible" film every now and then.
      "Fuck no. What I said was FACT. NONE of these thing, except for the runtime, were studio mandated."
      How is that "fact" when you don't even know for sure?
      This is why it's funny when people go around stating "fact, fact, facts" without stopping to think what they actually know and don't know.
      "This is a simple statement of fact. Also, this is rich coming from the guy who keeps bickering about nonsense that's got nothing to do with my argument."
      Umm... That's exactly what you were doing in regards to the whole time you kept quote-by-quote replying.
      "Not true. As I said, the assembly cut was over 4 hours. I'm sorry but it's clear you don't really know how these things work."
      No, it is true. Have you never heard of terms like "a script page if roughly 1 minute of film time" or duration stats on storyboards, animatics, etc.
      Every film needs a rough estimate of how long things will end up being or there is NO organization to what is being made. If you're so knowledgable of films, you should know this. I know you said you didn't go to film school, but I did, so I had to learn these things.
      Assembly cuts are just as they are - assembling ALL the pieces together just to see how they fit. There's no real adherence to a set time limit because the assembly cut doesn't take into account pacing, rhythm and duration necessarily in terms of say the actor's beats between dialogue. One page of a script could end up being 5-10 minutes because there are long pauses the actors take in between saying a line or walking into a room. That's why when FILMING, they'll overcompensate and FILM EVERYTHING just to make sure that when they hit the editing room, they'll at least have it in case they want to use it. But that doesn't mean in the final cut, they'll want to show 90 seconds of Gal Gadot walking through the doorway to the middle of the hall.
      "Sure."
      Which was EXACTLY my point, dude. THINK before you quote-by-quote reply if you end up agreeing with me later.
      "But that doesn't mean WB couldn't have believed Snyder was gonna make a 2h40 film, even if he eventually ended up making a 3h one. The difference is far too small to be noticed early into development."
      But it's far too BIG to NOT be noticed later in development.
      Snyder didn't just turn in a 3 hour cut without the studio knowing. There are several stages of cuts a filmmaker has to do before reaching a final. A director will submit a "director's cut" to the studio to get final approval of how to proceed before a film is finished. Once the director's cut is viewed, the studio normally will then start to mandate changes that the director has very little say in, but has to do because now it's his job as deemed by the studio.
      Thus, the studio will have already seen that BvS was indeed 3 hours and given him the "okay" before Snyder went about overseeing the completion of FX, music, sound mixing, etc.
      You don't complete a film that cost a studio over 250 million to make with the execs sticking their head in the sand until AFTER it's done for them to then decide to make changes AFTER the money is spent.
      "Completely untrue. Assembly cuts rarely resemble the final product, in terms of construction, editing and most importantly, runtime. There's absolutely no way of planning how long exactly a movie is gonna be "to the microsecond". This is just you being ignorant to moviemaking."
      Umm... Are you sure you understand filmmaking? Because that's exactly how NOT to do a film, dude.
      Assembly Cuts are EARLY cuts of the film. The UE of BvS is most certainly NOT an assembly cut. The four+ hour version of BvS was the assembly cut. They work from that template to begin shortening it. There's no freaking way the studio will not have seen subsequent cuts before settling on what is now the UE cut and giving the go-ahead for Snyder to then use that to get the rest done. Again, you DO NOT complete a film in full without the studio seeing it - ESPECIALLY not when it's costing them 250 million dollars.
      "Yet you accuse me of making pointless replies."
      Because you do.
      "Again, I don't care what some studio guy says about something. Charles Roven also said that MoS and BvS were huge successes when both of them barely broke even (especially MoS)."
      There's a difference between when the president of the studio makes that statement and someone like Charles Roven, who is directly attached to the films themselves.
      "As you said, WB are too proud to admit to fucked up. This isn't any different for Superman Returns."
      Yes, they're egotistical, but that's discounting the fact that they greenlit a sequel to SR and was in stages of production before they eventually pulled the plug.
      "Box office predictions prove otherwise. The hype, as per your own words, prove otherwise. MoS projected to gross more than 850 million after its opening (which is before word of mouth has a chance to spread) proves otherwise."
      How does that "prove otherwise" in regards to people having an issue with it? That issue is still there, but obviously curiosity will play a factor in that matter in regards to MOS being the next Superman movie in 7 years, so of course fans will see it. Doesn't mean they'll "like it."
      "Exactly my point. Despite levels of hype that far exceeded MoS', it still made EVEN MORE than it was projected to. So your whole argument of "it was doomed from the start" just doesn't add up."
      Sure it does - because nobody really expected THAT much from TA. Not even the studio. But right out of the gate, the studio already expected major earnings from MOS which were unlikely to be topped.
      Add to the fact that Superman was already troubled franchise and you got something of a problem.
      "Aren't you the one who just complained all this time that a small group cannot and should not reflect the collective as a whole? Now you're quote-mining ONE freaking dude, and pretending it's representative of the whole damn studio."
      He's the HEAD of the studio - what he says as its CEO indeed reflects the collective. There's a huge difference when talking about a bunch of fanboys quibbling over shit vs. the business of being a CEO of a major corporation and making a statement like that.
      You CAN'T DO THAT. It's not the same. Stop acting gullible. It's business 101.
      "Also, this is just fancy-talk on his part, as far as I'm concerned. NO ONE in their right minds thought MoS was going to make 1.3 billion."
      It says it right there. You can claim all the live long day how much you don't care, but now you're just backtracking because it doesn't line up with your narrative.
      "No, because both statements aren't mutually exclusive. Snyder still could've come up with the idea, with WB telling him how they wanted him to execute that idea."
      In which case, that still would've explained pretty much what I said in regards to Snyder not having complete control over BvS and the goings on of all of it.
      "Also, why is that your conclusion anyways? Because it doesn't follow what is the accepted standardized fanboy narrative so you can blame WB for everything?
      See how that works?"
      No, that doesn't work at all because even if we were to "Blame Snyder for everything," the problems still start at the top.
      "The article says it's after BvS was announced, unless I missed something."
      Fine, you got me there. However, it still really keeps within my point because either/or, it's early stages and for him to even say that at all casts a shadow on just how in control he was. Otherwise, you'd think he'd be nothing but ecstatic.
      "So what. So you're dismissing comments from the cast because it doesn't fit your narrative. But I'm not allowed to say Zack's comments aren't conclusive, whilst I don't even dismiss them. Casting could've happened, doesn't mean they have to go through with it."
      I'm not dismissing anything, I'm just placing it into context in regards to earlier statements. For instance, I have no doubt that such an idea like Jesse Eisenberg as Lex was definitely not a studio mandate and we can blame Snyder all the live long day for that one.
      However, that still doesn't mean we can say "BvS is 100% Snyder's fault because had complete control and every bad idea was his."
      "Zack most certainly cannot do what he's told. He didn't deliver."
      He delivered WB exactly what they wanted. That's why they released it in the first place after reportedly giving it a "standing ovation."
      The public reaction to it is the unpredictable part, but that doesn't mean Snyder didn't give the studio what they wanted in regards to the product.
      Sales on the other hand are a different story.
      "Seriously, if you fail at your job, are you going to blame your employer and say "well, you told me to do this"? No... It's the RESULTS that matter. The result is entirely dependent on you."
      That depends on the product itself and how much control I had over it. If it was all me, then it's all my fault. If a lot of the decisions were mandated from the higher ups, then it's not all my fault. Still doesn't mean I can't be terminated though.
      "The irony in you complaining about me supposedly "dismissing" his comments (comments I never actually dismissed anyways),"
      "So what" isn't dismissal or "I don't believe it"? Okay...
      "whilst you blatantly dismiss actual statements he made."
      So you're saying that what I posted wasn't an "actual statement" then? What is that if not a "dismissal"?
      "Btw, it's not just his asinine "Batman raped" comments. He has said loads of shit that prove he knows nothing about these characters."
      Go ahead and link to as many as you can find. I'm pretty sure I've read all of them, but this is actually worthwhile to discuss.
      "That was anger, not arrogance or pretension."
      Just as you see the things you want to see with Snyder, you could easily paint that as "arrogance and pretension" based off the notion that Trank was angry because he believed he was the one in the right and the studio screwed him over even though he knew better.
      "Dude... My point is, it's the SAME studio. The difference is, Patty is a good director, Zack isn't. So blaming everything on the studio and saying they're the ones fucking everything up, means you have to ignore WW, because that film overperformed both critically and financially."
      You're right - it's the SAME STUDIO. And under the same studio, such "instant classics" like Catwoman, Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, Superman Returns, etc. were created. Just like under the SAME STUDIO, such "horrible flops" like Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises were also created.
      It goes to show that just because it's under the same studio, not every film they're going to do is going to be consistent. And that doesn't just come down to Snyder. If we're going to play that game, he also gave them the smash hit known as 300 and the decently received Dawn of the Dead remake.
      Blaming them doesn't mean I have to ignore WW. They can still be blamed while acknowledging a hit they had on their hands. Same with Suicide Squad. We can all hate that film as much as we want, but it turned in a profit despite its marginally small legs (legs that, BTW, were actually better than Civil War's and on par with JL).
      "Doesn't mean I'm actually saying a film that's not made by Snyder is automatically good. It's just that you seem to happily ignore every film he's made has been bad, when Zack is the constant factor, NOT WB (which is proved by WW)."
      I'm not ignoring it. I purposefully acknowledged it when I said the studio should have shown him the door. What I am saying though is that Snyder is more of a scapegoat than you're willing to admit based on the simple acknowledgment that a lot of the decisions that led the DCEU to being in such a rut weren't his.
      And then to be fair, some of the ones that were, like the placement of WW within the DCEU that got the movie made in the first place, actually were GOOD DECISIONS.
      "I think it's funny that in order to defend your point, you are basically agreeing with me that Snyder is a bad director."
      Why is that "funny?" I never said he was a "bad director," but I acknowledged that he is definitely a divisive one who hasn't had the best track record in order to be deserving of being handed the keys to the DC universe. That means I'm at least honest about how I feel vs. just showing pure hatred for a dude and blaming him for everything.
      "They had confidence because they were coming off Nolan's TDK Trilogy. Besides, WB's projections for BvS were extremely low and they knew the movie was bad. They had no confidence in the film at all."
      Are you serious? Obviously, they were lowballing projections because that's what studios do so that they can claim how films "exceed" expectations and be "surprised" for the press.
      Are you going to say Disney has no faith in Infinity War because their projected numbers for opening weekend is BELOW the numbers of both Age of Ultron and the first Avengers?
      "Exceptions that prove the rule, mate."
      And yet there are exceptions to every rule, meaning that it happens.
      "Of course not, but they had Nolan (which is the only reason as to why MoS had so much hype anyways)."
      I doubt Snyder was Nolan's first choice so much as Nolan just needed to find a somewhat competent director. Affleck even says he "turned down" directing MOS, which shows that there were other choices. Even still, WB could have said "nah... go with someone else."
      "You're basically confirming my point. I should specify, they technically "could" have, but that doesn't mean Kevin didn't want to. They simply decided to go with it, because as per the freaking reports, they were too far into development."
      Which was a grave error on their part, but it doesn't change the fact that they COULD have which was my point all along.
      "This is exactly my point. It had nothing to do with WB being too full of themselves and too arrogant to believe the fucked up, which is what you said. Don't backtrack."
      Actually, it does - and that has nothing to do with backtracking. They could have fired Snyder and started over. Or at the very least, fired Snyder and brought someone in to pick up the pieces and do some last-minute adjustments like Peter Jackson did for Del Toro. But a lot of that indeed has to with being too full of themselves to admit they screwed up.
      "Dude... the entire third act of BvS was nothing BUT action. BvS action scenes weren't "too short"... they were simply uninspired, disappointing and boring."
      It was nothing but action because there was pretty much NO ACTION in the first two acts. That doesn't mean it wasn't "too short" in regards to how it was structured.
      "Because you refuse to acknowledge the bad results of his films are a result of Snyder's incompetence."
      Except I didn't because I already acknowledged several of his mistakes within the films themselves. All I am doing is also pressing the notion that not EVERYTHING involved with the films was his decisions.
      "That was AFTER he said that. Before the reviews came out, he said those things. Sure it affected him, but my point is that Zack doesn't reflect on what makes him a divisive director. Which makes him unable to improve."
      You're making another broad statement based on a personal assumption steeped in bias against Snyder. The point is that he was obviously affected by what critics think which is what undermines your point that he "doesn't care."
      "If I had a Vero account, I would certainly be honest, yes."
      Then go make one and say it to his face. Should take you less than a minute.
      "No. He LITERALLY said Batman kills people in TDKR "all the time"."
      Link me the interview.
      "And also, even if it was just that kid, it just goes to prove this guy doesn't give a fuck about the context and story of the novel. He just looks at the panels and believes he has it all figured out."
      How does that "prove" any of the like? We already know the context of why Batman is acting out of turn in BvS is completely different to why he's brutal in TDKR, so clearly there is a time and a place for context within the story. It's obvious Snyder knew he was deliberately inverting Batman's morality by making him the VILLAIN of BvS as opposed to the hero.
      "I know of what interview you speak. And that clarification is fucking laughable on his part."
      Indeed. Which goes to show that I don't always just agree with Snyder's choices contrary to how you're trying to paint me.
      That being said....
      "Ohh, Batman wouldn't see throwing grenades at people as killing him. He wouldn't see driving the Batmobile on top of defenseless goons as killing people. He wouldn't see shooting people to shreds as killing people. He wouldn't see blowing up cars with people in them as killing people. He would just think 'They shouldn't have been near the explosion', because after all, it's the bullet that kills people, and not the shooter. It's not Batman's problem"."
      First of all, that's obviously an over-exaggeration of what Snyder said. I think you know that already, so I'm just getting it out of the way.
      Secondly, his intention, as I viewed it, was applying more so towards the whole "Batman NEVER kills" statement and Snyder was addressing it in regards to how Batman has been seen mowing people down with reckless abandon without it actually being counted as "killing". He certainly did it clumsily, but that doesn't mean he didn't have some semblance of a point.
      I mean, Tim Burton's Batman killed people and nobody really gave a shit. And when Nolan's Batman DID do some questionable things like blow up Ra's Al Ghul's temple, killing several League of Shadows members in the process, let Ducard fall to his death, shot at Talia and caused her to fall to her death, etc. nobody counted it as Batman "killing."
      "I seriously don't understand how ANYONE calling themselves a Batman fan can defend a guy who does nothing but crap on Batman's legacy and destroy anything and everything the character was originally about."
      Because not everyone agrees on exactly what Batman was supposedly "originally" about ("originally", Batman went around with a gun shooting people lest we forget) or even what he means. I get pissed off all the time at other Superman fans when they posit what he "means" or "represents", but you still have to take a step back and realize that that's what he means "to them" and your views differ.
      "But it PROVES that he doesn't know what he's talking about. It proves he's lying out of his ass."
      Not knowing what one is talking about =/= lying.
      It doesn't "prove" anything.
      "And he does it so shamelessly. He does it, from a place of self-deluded authority with him constantly saying he's a huge DC fan. That is clear proof of arrogance on his part."
      How? How is any of this not simply you interpreting what he's saying as meaning that based on your own bias?
      As I said:
      A) People can change their minds.
      B) People can go through phases, especially in the midst of whatever creative endeavor they're currently pursuing.
      "Oh please....
      Pre-MoS:
      Snyder: "I don't like these heroes. Never connected with them. As a kid, I was like wow, they don't kill and have sex. Not for me. Not dark enough. My Batman could get raped. That's dark"."
      First of all, this is obviously another over-exaggeration of what he actually said.
      Secondly, like I said, we all go through those stupid phases of self-maturity and anyone who says they didn't is probably lying.
      Third, I remember the actual quote of Snyder mentioning Batman getting raped in prison. It was in regards to answering what is "dark" and what is "cool." He said that Batman is "cool," but not necessarily as dark as people think he is. He used the "getting raped in prison" as an example of something that is super dark and posited that based on the type of filmography he had, "that could happen in my movie." Not that it SHOULD happen or that he'd actually do it.
      And for the record, when he got the chance, Batman didn't get raped in "his movie."
      "Hired for MoS:
      Snyder: "MY FAVORITE HERO IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN SUPERMAN!!!!"
      Give me a break.
      Don't tell me Snyder changed his mind in 2 years and completely caught up with the comics in that time period."
      I didn't and I didn't posit to. That doesn't mean he wasn't necessarily a fan. But he certainly wasn't a die-hard fan of the character.
      "Funny, reminds me of you."
      "I know you are, but what am I?"
      Real funny.
    12. Seb
      April 8, 2018
      Listen, we can debate this for days.
      But I'm just going to sum up my arguments, and you can respond or leave it. But I'm not going to bother responding to every little thing anymore, because these comments take far too long to write.
      First argument (well, this is more of an observation, as I've said):
      On Batman-News, the pro-Snyder camp are more dishonest than the haters. In terms of behavior, they are the same.
      This statement is NOT meant to reflect the larger movie going audience as a whole.
      Second argument:
      Blaming WB for BvS sucking, and not Snyder, just because they were the ones coming up with a Batman/ Superman film (which I still see no sufficient evidence of) makes about as much sense as blaming Marvel if Joss Whedon had fucked up Avengers.
      The thing is, it's not Joss Whedon that went out and asked if he could make an Avengers film. Marvel studios were the ones with that idea. They simply picked Joss to do the job. That doesn't mean if the movie itself was bad, that Marvel deserves the blame. Joss was the one responsible for its execution. Snyder is very much to blame for everything that's wrong with the BvS film we got (apart from the runtime). And even then, his theatrical cut has ABYSMAL editing which he is in charge of.
      Unlike Suicide Squad, BvS wasn't edited by the studio. Zack had full control there.
      Nothing more needs to be said, really. Everything else we talked about concerns those 2 points, and we're just going around in circles.
      If you can't agree with those 2 points, then you really shouldn't bother responding. Because especially in the latter case, there's simply no evidence or logic to convince me otherwise.
    13. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 8, 2018
      "Listen, we can debate this for days.
      But I'm just going to sum up my arguments, and you can respond or leave it. But I'm not going to bother responding to every little thing anymore, because these comments take far too long to write."
      Okay, I will say this about you; you're at least mature enough to admit when things go too far and when enough is enough. And also honest about how long lengthy posts take to write - I mean, do you know how many people go "Pff.... Slow poke. I write these in 15 minutes." Even me, who actually is a very fast typist, can't deny that it's at least an hour or an hour and a half debate-posts.
      "First argument (well, this is more of an observation, as I've said):
      On Batman-News, the pro-Snyder camp are more dishonest than the haters. In terms of behavior, they are the same."
      Fine, but it is still a select group of individuals. You use Ninja as your primary reasoning for thinking this and you have to admit it shows - I see plenty of others who don't act dishonest.
      "This statement is NOT meant to reflect the larger movie going audience as a whole."
      Fine. Gotcha.
      "Second argument:
      Blaming WB for BvS sucking, and not Snyder, just because they were the ones coming up with a Batman/ Superman film (which I still see no sufficient evidence of) makes about as much sense as blaming Marvel if Joss Whedon had fucked up Avengers."
      See, here's the thing; you're taking what I said completely out of context. I never said Snyder was exempt from blame - I said that WB's actions hold more weight than most tend to believe and thus Snyder ends up being the scapegoat more than he deserves.
      "The thing is, it's not Joss Whedon that went out and asked if he could make an Avengers film. Marvel studios were the ones with that idea. They simply picked Joss to do the job. That doesn't mean if the movie itself was bad, that Marvel deserves the blame. Joss was the one responsible for its execution."
      The HUGE difference lies in just how Marvel approached the property though. The Avengers was not a film borne out of a REACTION to something. They were planning it ever since Iron Man 1 hit the screen. BvS was borne out of a REACTION to Man of Steel supposedly not meeting expectations, so WB seemingly decided to stuff him into the sequel in order to increase box office revenue.
      The two examples are NOT comparable because they rely on how the studio actually acts/prepares to deliver the projects. If WB was as organized as Marvel and Snyder ended up screwing the pooch, then yes, you'd have a point. But they're not - they had too many cooks in the kitchen and interfered one too many times for it to be all Snyder's fault.
      "Snyder is very much to blame for everything that's wrong with the BvS film we got (apart from the runtime)."
      No, he isn't. He is to blame for a good portion of it, but not for "everything" because of lot of which happened was indeed studio mandated. It makes no sense to state otherwise.
      "And even then, his theatrical cut has ABYSMAL editing which he is in charge of."
      Indeed - but when faced with the notion of him having to do what he did at pretty much the last possible minute, it's not hard to understand why.
      "Unlike Suicide Squad, BvS wasn't edited by the studio. Zack had full control there."
      That is completely ignorant to think that it was just by him that the BvS cut ended up a mess though. For instance, we can talk about how he should have cut the Knightmare scene or the JL scene, but just think for a minute what WB might have thought of that from a marketing standpoint; The Knightmare scene is pretty much the glorified sequel bait as is the JL scene. It was their equivalent of an after-credits moment. Do you really think they'd want to lose that as they strove so hard to copy Marvel?
      "Nothing more needs to be said, really. Everything else we talked about concerns those 2 points, and we're just going around in circles."
      That tends to happen when you use quote-by-quote replies irresponsibly, but whatever.
      "If you can't agree with those 2 points, then you really shouldn't bother responding. Because especially in the latter case, there's simply no evidence or logic to convince me otherwise."
      There is plenty of logic and examples to at least offer an alternative viewpoint. I'm even willing to bet that you never even heard of that comment Snyder made in regards to following WB's plan regardless of how he felt (you can correct me if I'm wrong).
      But in the end, I wasn't even trying to convince you anyways. Everyone is biased and stubborn in their viewpoint. Nobody is going to turn a Snyder hater into a lover in a day or vice versa. But at the very least, one can offer a different viewpoint to consider if the other isn't too stubborn in the ways to at least hear it out.
      So you do what floats your boat in the end. I will do the same.
    14. Seb
      April 8, 2018
      Yeah, I type pretty quickly myself. It's not like I timed it, but I saw that these comments took me 1 to 1.5 hours to write. It's just not worth it. I'm on a break now, but I start again tomorrow, so that was on my mind as well and I can't risk spending hours talking to you here, when ultimately, none of this is actually meaningful in our day to day lives.
      "you have to admit it shows - I see plenty of others who don't act dishonest."
      I agree. There are several people I can think of right now that aren't dishonest (from the defender group, to be clear). It's not like there's a huge difference between the groups. But I've just never seen a "hater" use as many lies as I've seen been produced by some of his defenders. And it's not just Ninja. What also bothers me is not only when these same people lie over and over again, but how they manage to get loads of praise and approval (in terms of likes, or replies expressing agreement, etc).
      I've "called out" or "corrected" the haters here, whenever I knew what they were saying wasn't true. I see people responding well to those types of comments I make (from both sides). I just haven't seen the same mindset from his defenders, or at least not generally speaking. Also, while again, I write some petty as fuck shit here... at least I don't mean it. But people continuously whine about my behavior regardless (which is fine), but then they are also the first to act immature themselves (again, we both agree that both sides do this). But my point is that it's still the accepted narrative here on Batman-News that "hating" Snyder (and I know what I'm about to say is ironic, considering I've used the term "haters" all this time, but that was purely for argument's sake, I think you get that) is somehow an outrage and it's proof that we are just "haters" who "hate everything" and "hate for the sake of hating", when nothing could be further from the truth. But when THEY do it (like irrationally hating Whedon, for poor reasons) that's completely fine and they get approval. When THEY insult the "hater" side, this is just fighting the good old fight. Again, while both sides are guilty of the same, stupid, childish, immature behavior... this double standard is REALLY something that's only pushed by the defender side. At least the "haters" (bad term, I know) are honest about this, or at least more so. Just a small example.
      "I said that WB's actions hold more weight than most tend to believe and thus Snyder ends up being the scapegoat more than he deserves."
      Okay. I accept that WB is to blame in large part... But you say this, whilst also blaming WB for BvS' poor action scenes. I'm sorry, but that is 100% on Snyder. Snyder himself storyboards all of his films, this isn't a secret, I'm sure you've seen the pics for yourself. The guy has complete control over the visual aspect of his films. While I get that WB may have told him to ease on the destruction or relentless nature of his action, that doesn't change the fact that this isn't what made the BvS action scenes disappointing. Heck, why is the warehouse scene so good? And there's still a lot of destruction during the Doomsday fight.
      "BvS was borne out of a REACTION to Man of Steel supposedly not meeting expectations"
      You say that as if BvS was destined to be a bad film. Even if WB are reactionary, that doesn't mean BvS couldn't have been a great film. Marvel planning the Avengers doesn't really have anything to do with the end results. And WB wanting a BvS film doesn't either. Snyder was in charge of executing the idea. An idea, that while rushed, certainly wasn't impossible to handle. But he failed. The result of the end product is not on WB, it's completely on Snyder. He MADE it. Not WB.
      "But they're not - they had too many cooks in the kitchen and interfered one too many times for it to be all Snyder's fault."
      But that's not true for both MoS and BvS. MoS had little to no interference (and also, studio interference is not at all a bad thing. Happens with EVERY movie) and BvS had none except for the last minute runtime changes (which yes, I agree, sucked. But a better cut WAS possible with those time restraints).
      As for JL, your argument is 110% correct there.
      "The Knightmare scene is pretty much the glorified sequel bait as is the JL scene."
      But the Knightmare scene was still completely Snyder's idea. So I doubt he wanted it cut anyways. It's also not just the scenes he cut, or those he should have cut... but more than that, the plot construction, which was just awful in the final cut.
      "I'm even willing to bet that you never even heard of that comment Snyder made in regards to following WB's plan regardless of how he felt "
      You're right I didn't. In my defense, that's the only thing you said or mentioned that I hadn't heard of before. My point is, those comments simply aren't conclusive enough for me to make any specific, nor grand assumptions of the BTS.
    15. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 8, 2018
      "Yeah, I type pretty quickly myself. It's not like I timed it, but I saw that these comments took me 1 to 1.5 hours to write. It's just not worth it. I'm on a break now, but I start again tomorrow, so that was on my mind as well and I can't risk spending hours talking to you here, when ultimately, none of this is actually meaningful in our day to day lives."
      True. I always get a laugh out of forum posters who act like they have all the time in the world to write 100-page essays during their conveniently unnamed "day job" when excusing themselves from "get a life" comments.
      "I agree. There are several people I can think of right now that aren't dishonest (from the defender group, to be clear). It's not like there's a huge difference between the groups. But I've just never seen a "hater" use as many lies as I've seen been produced by some of his defenders."
      Being completely clear, I think a lot of that has to do with where you stand. I'll give the "group" of haters this; clearly, they've got each other's backs because they all kinda gang up on the same people, so it's easier to catch them in lies or make them mess up and make fun of them.
      There are lots of fans here who love Snyder's work, but a part from a few like Ninja, they post only every now and again and tend to stay away from long-winded debates and shouting matches, which is why it'd be harder to gauge the community here as a whole without latching on to the handful of individuals like Ninja who are the only ones who comment frequently and get into arguments.
      For example, you'll see plenty of casual or new posters post something during one of the Snyder articles like "That's really cool. I loved BvS. I hated what Joss Whedon did with JL" and then someone like Reverse Flash will post images of Rotten Tomatoes or "You loved "MARTHA?" and not get a reply in return.
      "And it's not just Ninja. What also bothers me is not only when these same people lie over and over again, but how they manage to get loads of praise and approval (in terms of likes, or replies expressing agreement, etc)."
      I don't know... I see the "hater" community stocking up on the likes a lot more than the fanboys to be honest.
      "I've "called out" or "corrected" the haters here, whenever I knew what they were saying wasn't true. I see people responding well to those types of comments I make (from both sides). I just haven't seen the same mindset from his defenders, or at least not generally speaking."
      And that's somewhat true. Nobody "likes" my comments if I don't have something positive to say. lol
      However, there are a few "haters" around here who are civil enough to respect me for my opinions, but sometimes it seems like they just don't remember my name enough to understand that I'm not actually a hater when they "like" some of my comments criticizing Snyder for instance. lol
      "Also, while again, I write some petty as fuck shit here... at least I don't mean it. But people continuously whine about my behavior regardless (which is fine), but then they are also the first to act immature themselves (again, we both agree that both sides do this)."
      To be fair, it's not always easy to tell on a forum. You are still typing words that have no tone or inflection like saying them would. And while there are phrases, sentences and words to give off the vibe you are being facetious/sarcastic, it will never come across as clear the same way if it came from your lips. That's just a fact of forum posting.
      "But my point is that it's still the accepted narrative here on Batman-News that "hating" Snyder (and I know what I'm about to say is ironic, considering I've used the term "haters" all this time, but that was purely for argument's sake, I think you get that) is somehow an outrage and it's proof that we are just "haters" who "hate everything" and "hate for the sake of hating", when nothing could be further from the truth. But when THEY do it (like irrationally hating Whedon, for poor reasons) that's completely fine and they get approval. When THEY insult the "hater" side, this is just fighting the good old fight. Again, while both sides are guilty of the same, stupid, childish, immature behavior... this double standard is REALLY something that's only pushed by the defender side. At least the "haters" (bad term, I know) are honest about this, or at least more so. Just a small example."
      I don't know... I have to disagree. The irrational hate for anything and everyone goes around pretty frequently. I've seen plenty of unjustified hate on Snyder just as much as I see for Whedon (more so - I think at the very least we can agree that the "hater" community frequents these forums more than the lovers... Otherwise, NinjaGamer wouldn't be the sole voice going from post to post pissing everyone off). I mean, for instance - it's really petty and mean-spirited for "haters" to criticize actors for their looks. They can hate on the choice, but I mean... Comparing Ezra Miller's face to a serial killer? Come on. Isn't that kinda... low? He can't help how his face looks and I highly doubt Snyder chose him because he looks like a serial killer. He may not have been the ideal choice for them, but that kinda seems like "hating for the sake of hating."
      But that's not just exclusive to here or even a new thing - I mean, if you recall, "haters" hated on Cavill for instance because he wasn't "American" and was a "limey brit". "Haters" hate (and still hate) on Gadot because her "boobs aren't big enough." I mean, really.
      "Okay. I accept that WB is to blame in large part... But you say this, whilst also blaming WB for BvS' poor action scenes. I'm sorry, but that is 100% on Snyder. Snyder himself storyboards all of his films, this isn't a secret, I'm sure you've seen the pics for yourself. The guy has complete control over the visual aspect of his films. While I get that WB may have told him to ease on the destruction or relentless nature of his action, that doesn't change the fact that this isn't what made the BvS action scenes disappointing. Heck, why is the warehouse scene so good? And there's still a lot of destruction during the Doomsday fight."
      I don't completely blame them. I'm not saying WB went in and told Snyder to "Film it like THIS..." Snyder obviously deserves a lot of the blame for the fights being lackluster... However, I don't buy that it was ALL him based on, not only WB's track record of interference, but the sudden drop in quality of the fight scenes BECAUSE of how great they were in MOS. I'm not going to argue the supposed over-abundance of the fight scenes in MOS' third act, but I found them freaking exhilarating as f#%#. From the choreography to the camera work to the destruction to the pacing... It was all fantastic.
      And then suddenly BvS's fight scenes end up being shorter, less heavy handed, destruction minimized to the point of barely any civilian casualties, etc.
      I mean, even if I didn't think WB had a hand in that, then it's quite the drop in quality in regards to the one thing haters and lovers alike can agree about being one of his strengths.
      It's true that the Warehouse fight was great, but why is the one fight scene in a movie called Batman v Superman have nothing to do with the titular characters' duel?
      "You say that as if BvS was destined to be a bad film. Even if WB are reactionary, that doesn't mean BvS couldn't have been a great film."
      Of course not. And as you already know, I still flipping loved it despite some of its shortcomings. But my love for it doesn't blind me to the notion that its mere existence was borne out of a really bad decision to rush to catch up to Marvel.
      "Marvel planning the Avengers doesn't really have anything to do with the end results. And WB wanting a BvS film doesn't either."
      Yes, it does. Because you have to consider that Joss Whedon wasn't given the "architect" role in the same way Snyder was under studio mandates. Whedon, while he helped with some of the other solo Marvel films, was able to focus his energies on TA.
      To continue off that:
      "Snyder was in charge of executing the idea. An idea, that while rushed, certainly wasn't impossible to handle. But he failed. The result of the end product is not on WB, it's completely on Snyder. He MADE it. Not WB."
      Not "impossible", but the odds were stacked against it. In which case, Snyder STILL delivered exactly the type of film WB wanted, but it didn't resonate well with audiences and critics.
      "But that's not true for both MoS and BvS. MoS had little to no interference (and also, studio interference is not at all a bad thing. Happens with EVERY movie)"
      Studio interference is not ALWAYS a bad thing, but there are plenty of cases where it IS. There's a reason the likes of Spielberg and co. never want to work on franchise movies and that is one of them. Not necessarily just specific to WB. However, the DCEU movies are some of the more notorious cases.
      MOS didn't have studio "interference" so much that it was studio mandated to be a certain way. And despite its shortcomings, it is widely agreed upon to be the best of the DCEU films sans Wonder Woman.
      BvS had more studio interference than MOS beyond just the last minute runtime. As I explained, this hindered the film in more ways than one and its very existence was to catch up to Marvel.
      "As for JL, your argument is 110% correct there."
      What are your opinions on that?
      "But the Knightmare scene was still completely Snyder's idea. So I doubt he wanted it cut anyways. It's also not just the scenes he cut, or those he should have cut... but more than that, the plot construction, which was just awful in the final cut."
      Even still, since WB already mandated that he cut the film down, he could have gotten rid of it under their supervision. In which case, WB wouldn't have wanted to see the scene go even if Snyder did.
      "You're right I didn't. In my defense, that's the only thing you said or mentioned that I hadn't heard of before. My point is, those comments simply aren't conclusive enough for me to make any specific, nor grand assumptions of the BTS."
      Maybe not, but it's enough to at least see that Snyder didn't have the kind of control that is generally assumed or else he wouldn't say that. And this was DURING the time he was still "all in" under WB's payroll.
    16. Seb
      April 8, 2018
      "I don't know... I see the "hater" community stocking up on the likes a lot more than the fanboys to be honest."
      But only recently. This simply didn't happen in the past. I'm talking a few months ago even. Seems like JL has changed a lot of people's minds. Even with these "Snyder says" articles, I've seen a lot of avid Snyder defenders of old change their opinion and say "maybe he wasn't that good" and agree that he was a mistake. A year ago, hating Snyder was the minority opinion here, and would only get you hate, vitriol and nothing but venomous replies for daring to state an opinion (I speak from experience. I remember even being mild with my opinions, and getting dozens upon dozens of hateful replies in return. This type of stuff simply does not happen anymore). In the past few months, it's become more like a 50/50 thing. And with the Snyder articles, it seems most people are starting to argue against Snyder. So sure, you are right about this in some way, but all of this happened only very recently.
      "it seems like they just don't remember my name enough to understand that I'm not actually a hater when they "like" some of my comments criticizing Snyder for instance. lol"
      Of course. As I said, I don't care to keep track of anyone's names (with few exceptions). I don't hold grudges. While I can only speak for myself, I wouldn't be surprised this is true for a lot of other people as well.
      "sentences and words to give off the vibe you are being facetious/sarcastic"
      Not about that. It's about them whining about my foul language (which is fair, even if I don't actually mean any of it. I know I can't expect anyone to understand that). My point is that they are guilty of the same toxic behavior (which I don't mind, I'm not bothered by insults) whilst they pretend they are above that kind of stuff. And they (mostly in the past, as I've said) always got away with it... in fact were even praised for it. It's that double standard that has bugged me ever since I visited this site.
      "But that's not just exclusive to here or even a new thing - I mean, if you recall, "haters" hated on Cavill for instance because he wasn't "American" and was a "limey brit". "Haters" hate (and still hate) on Gadot because her "boobs aren't big enough." I mean, really."
      You are confusing actual haters, with people who don't like Snyder.
      This is what I mean when I said using "haters" wasn't a good term to describe the anti-Snyder camp. When I say "haters", I just mean those that haven't been fans of Snyder and his films. What you're referring to are people who are never happy, regardless. It has nothing to do with Snyder, nor the people we are talking about.
      I didn't see for example Reverse Flash saying Cavill is a bad choice "cause he's a brit".
      In fact, some of my most well liked comments have been those praising Cavill, because I don't think WB deserve him. Those likes came from both sides.
    17. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 8, 2018
      "But only recently. This simply didn't happen in the past. I'm talking a few months ago even. Seems like JL has changed a lot of people's minds. Even with these "Snyder says" articles, I've seen a lot of avid Snyder defenders of old change their opinion and say "maybe he wasn't that good" and agree that he was a mistake. A year ago, hating Snyder was the minority opinion here, and would only get you hate, vitriol and nothing but venomous replies for daring to state an opinion (I speak from experience. I remember even being mild with my opinions, and getting dozens upon dozens of hateful replies in return. This type of stuff simply does not happen anymore). In the past few months, it's become more like a 50/50 thing. And with the Snyder articles, it seems most people are starting to argue against Snyder. So sure, you are right about this in some way, but all of this happened only very recently."
      Oh, come on, man. I've been on here for a nearly a full year now (and I've lurked a lot longer than that) and the haters were spewing a fair amount of equal vitriol with similar effects.
      Now it's true that there was more positivity around these parts - and how can you blame that when we were all gearing up, excited about JL (for it all to come crashing down later). But everything tends to even out in the end, especially now when most of the fans have seemingly gone their own way and what's left are a few extremists and more of the hater community.
      "Of course. As I said, I don't care to keep track of anyone's names (with few exceptions). I don't hold grudges. While I can only speak for myself, I wouldn't be surprised this is true for a lot of other people as well."
      Just depends on who you ask. For instance, RF will never forget my name. lol
      "Not about that. It's about them whining about my foul language (which is fair, even if I don't actually mean any of it. I know I can't expect anyone to understand that). My point is that they are guilty of the same toxic behavior (which I don't mind, I'm not bothered by insults) whilst they pretend they are above that kind of stuff. And they (mostly in the past, as I've said) always got away with it... in fact were even praised for it. It's that double standard that has bugged me ever since I visited this site."
      It's a double standard that exists anywhere not just exclusive to this site. If someone is spewing swear words left and right, it's very easy to assume that person is pissed.
      "You are confusing actual haters, with people who don't like Snyder.
      This is what I mean when I said using "haters" wasn't a good term to describe the anti-Snyder camp. When I say "haters", I just mean those that haven't been fans of Snyder and his films. What you're referring to are people who are never happy, regardless. It has nothing to do with Snyder, nor the people we are talking about."
      Not true. Plenty of the people I am talking about were "fans" and simply hated Snyder and his choices. I am merely going back a few years, but it happened.
      "I didn't see for example Reverse Flash saying Cavill is a bad choice "cause he's a brit"."
      Not anymore. You don't often see these comments anymore because thankfully, most people have gotten over it. But a similar kind of complaint still exists, which is why I used the example of saying Ezra Miller looks like a serial killer. Something RF did in fact say.
      "In fact, some of my most well liked comments have been those praising Cavill, because I don't think WB deserve him. Those likes came from both sides."
      Now they do, which I'm glad - Revisionist history thanks to Cavill proving to be a good Superman. But like Gal and Ben, that wasn't always the case.
    18. Seb
      April 9, 2018
      " I've been on here for a nearly a full year now (and I've lurked a lot longer than that) and the haters were spewing a fair amount of equal vitriol with similar effects."
      I just don't agree... there are a lot of people since last year who've left this site. People that were avid Snyder defenders. And weirdly, there have been a few who've come up since last year who don't like Snyder (Hunter Zolomon, myzterius, etc). In terms of 2 years ago, there was me, OGmacrazy (who's left and was hated by most here), StarTheory (who doesn't comment all that often, he usually just agrees with me) and another guy whose name I don't remember, but also left. That was pretty much it. EVERYONE ELSE were Snyder fanboys.
      Also, I'm sure you've seen that "DC-Debates" site, filled with trolls. All of those people were originally Batman-News readers. But they were all bullied away cause they didn't like Snyder, so don't pretend this has always been a 50/50 thing.
      Even now, the defenders probably still outnumber the haters, but looking at the current trajectory, it won't be for that much longer.
      "it's a double standard that exists anywhere not just exclusive to this site."
      Sure... but it's a double standard that's ONLY pushed by his defenders, not the haters. Which is an example of their dishonesty.
      "Not true. Plenty of the people I am talking about were "fans" and simply hated Snyder and his choices. I am merely going back a few years, but it happened."
      So?? You can hate Snyder for good reason. He's screwed up 3 movies, this hate doesn't come from nowhere. My point is, just because these people hate Snyder, doesn't mean they are going to hate everything DCEU related, which is what you implied.
      "But a similar kind of complaint still exists, which is why I used the example of saying Ezra Miller looks like a serial killer. Something RF did in fact say."
      Those comments don't just come from the Snyder haters camp though. And the ONLY reason as to why these types of comments exist in the first place, is because Ezra was not a faithful Flash and many people don't like that. And it's not just looks. What RF does is state that opinion and use hyperbolic, trollish arguments to do so.
      "Now they do, which I'm glad - Revisionist history thanks to Cavill proving to be a good Superman. But like Gal and Ben, that wasn't always the case."
      Okay, but saying that the people who didn't like these casting choices were only, or predominately Snyder haters, is a claim with literally ZERO proof.
    19. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      You honestly are hilarious
    20. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      If only
    21. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      Mate... it's gotten to the point that even the Snyder defenders don't take you seriously and actively distance themselves from you because you are so damn dishonest. Don't take my word for it though, just go through the comments. Reflect on yourself, kid. I'm serious. We all know you're young, nothing wrong with that. But you are in dire need of some perspective.
    22. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      I won’t take your word for it, don’t worry.
    23. Seb
      April 8, 2018
      Which is what I said, dumbo. I told you to check it out for yourself. Jesus.
      Thing is, you clearly don't want to. You're afraid of what you'll find, clearly.
    24. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      I’m not a fanatic. People confuse being fed up of receiving an overwhelming amount of abuse and wanting to shut up trolls who are still propagating this ridiculous behavior with fanaticism. I do not worship Snyder, and I am not blind to the faults of BvS. I haven’t even seen many Snyder films, so I don’t even know if I like his style so much as just what he did for MoS and BvS in particular.
    25. aGuyWhoIsLazy
      April 6, 2018
      FACT: You == Turkey;
      LOGIC: if { isTurkey( ) echo”Gobble Gobble”} return(0);
    26. Hunter Zolomon
      April 6, 2018
      Oh look its you with your really unoriginal comments.
    27. dugzino
      April 7, 2018
      wow, bad coding.
    28. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      u dont have any facts you stupid piece of shit
    29. Royal Ruler
      April 7, 2018
      I have more facts than any zombie here
    30. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      nope
    31. Royal Ruler
      April 7, 2018
      That's what a zombie says
    32. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      cool
    33. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      I have an entire Internets worth love.
    34. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      nope just shit from ur ass
    35. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      ???????
    36. Seb is a Socialist
      April 7, 2018
      ??????????????
    37. BROWN_KNIGHT 4 Trump
      April 7, 2018
      You have know facts. Just blind hatred for the man.
    38. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      I wish they did. All I seem to hear is “WAH ITS BAD BECAUSE LOOK AT THE COLOR OF THAT SUIT AND WAH I DONT LIKE THAT GUYS NOSE” and ridiculous stuff like that that has no real bearing
      Like?
    39. Rust
      April 7, 2018
      I agree that it's usually just a bunch of overblown nitpicks, but I also agree with Hunter about the lightning being important (though maybe not with the same intensity).
      Flash's lightning colors have become a cool little part of his mythos and world that shapes things in a symbolic way and fleshes out the mechanics of the Speed Force (as well as Thawne's story) -- as Snyder fans, it's one of those details that are right up our alley. I'm surprised WB didn't honor it here.
      No idea who was behind the decision directly, so I won't peg it on Snyder. I mean, even if Zack didn't know about it, why didn't Geoff Johns speak up? :P Isn't that his primary function in DC Films?
    40. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      I don’t think it’s a nonissue, necessarily. I see where he’s coming from. I just don’t know if we need to be judging so harshly. At least wait to the Flash solo film.

The Walking Cuban

April 6, 2018

#theresasnydercut?

NinjaGamer13
April 6, 2018
That’s been known for ages
1. The Walking Cuban
  April 6, 2018
  We need to get Indiana jones on the case.
  1. myzterius
    April 6, 2018
    Or the terminator.
    1. The Walking Cuban
      April 6, 2018
      Throw it into the lava! (Stopped by Snyder/Saddam/Pekingese T-1000)
  2. The Walking Cuban
    April 7, 2018
    Poirot.
    1. The Walking Cuban
      April 7, 2018
      ...Rambo.
      I quit. Lol
2. Seb
  April 7, 2018
  No it hasn't.
  There's no such thing. Assembly cut =/= Snyder cut (which is basically another way of saying Zack's director's cut).
  1. NinjaGamer13
    April 7, 2018
    You need to keep up with the news. Honestly where have you been? A Snyder Cut in some form exists, as far as we can possibly know. There is no denying it. The only thing we don’t know is how much of it is complete. This could help with that:
    https://www.google.com/amp/...
    1. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      No it doesn't. Your link proves the existence of an ASSEMBLY cut.
      I actually know quite a lot about filmmaking (I used to want to do filmschool but my father didn't allow it). You clearly don't understand the difference.
    2. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      If you want to call it an assembly cut, so be it, but then THAT IS the Snyder Cut.
      That’s nice.
    3. Seb
      April 8, 2018
      Thanks for proving my point. What you don't realize is that you are saying this "Snyder Cut" is not even a finished cut. And I'm not talking about the CGI, music, etc.
      I'm talking about the fact that this "cut" is nothing like an actual Snyder cut would be, in terms of editing, scenes, which takes to use, plot construction, etc.
      Look up the meaning of an assembly cut, and perhaps you'll understand. Of course, you're not very bright, so maybe not.
Reverse_Flash
April 6, 2018
Yeah but it's like looking directly at the sun with a magnifying glass.
1. The Walking Cuban
  April 6, 2018
  That's why I use a telescope.

Royal Ruler

April 6, 2018

Every time I watch Ezra's flash I need bleach to clear my eyes. This dude should be thinking how to act like Flash instead of some googly eyed fuck face . Did you see his running, he run like he's on drugs.

Hunter Zolomon

April 6, 2018

https://www.cbr.com/zack-sn... Pretty good article here what raises a lot of good points.

Nightwing Fan J
April 6, 2018
He was simply answering fans' questions. No need to overanalyze it. Besides, CBR is just a bunch of clickbait-writing morons.
1. Schuyler Finley
  April 6, 2018
  And the guy is wrong when he said this "However, when it seems as though the only person who’s able to decipher all this information for themself is the one who directed the film, the
  inevitable disconnect that results from crafting such an overly and unnecessarily complex narrative isn’t the audience’s fault – it’s the film’s."
  He said this despite the very fact that a lot of Snyder's explanations were already said by dozens of people before he discussed it on Vero. The horses? People have already noted the biblical references. The spear? Same thing.
  1. Schuyler Finley
    April 6, 2018
    Hell, I didn't catch a lot of these references, but it didn't interfere with my enjoyment with the film.
  2. Seb
    April 7, 2018
    I'm pretty sure he's referencing the "sex addiction artistic reference" part, and the whole anti-life equation thing... which NONE of you, got (not blaming you, just stating facts). Because it was simply impossibly TO get.
    As for the spear, I thought it was pretty obvious... but that doesn't change the fact that I've heard several different explanations coming from Snyder fanboys. So don't pretend his defenders had it all figured out, because many of you don't agree amongst yourselves anyways.
    1. kan
      April 7, 2018
      Yez THIS! Seb just handed you all a bit of ORACLE from the Matrix.
      "Here, take a cookie. I promise, by the time you're done eating it, you'll feel right as rain."
    2. Schuyler Finley
      April 7, 2018
      The writer was talking about all of the references. People already noted that Darkseid was involved in Superman's evil turn in the Knightmare. I thought that maybe Darkseid had mind-controlled Superman like how he did in the animated series or maybe Superman gave up and joined Darkseid. So the revelation that anti-life equation was used is a nice touch.
      And as for other people having different explanations, that's not really a bad thing when it comes to stuff like this. This is common when you leave stuff to other's interpretation. It's like looking at an abstract painting. You'll have some people come up with similar explanations, but you'll also have other others coming up with different explanations.
    3. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      Darkseid's involvement was obvious. That he was somehow controlled by the anti-life equation is bullocks. There's no mention or implication to be found in the film. For all we know (and what is stated in the film), Superman turned evil because Batman got Lois killed one way or another, and decided to "team up" with Darkseid and enact his totalitarian will upon the world.
      To make the connection with the anti-life equation though, is a massive stretch and I've not even seen the biggest of Snyder fanboys ever suggest that anyways. Only Snyder knew this.
      I actually like the anti-life equation theory, because Superman would NEVER turn evil like that (well, unless you're Snyder and "no one stays good in this world" and everything has to be nihilistic), but my point is that there's no way of knowing this anyways.
      And suppose that it was somehow stated in the film, so what? Only 1% of the audience even knows what all of this means. Which is not how movies should be made. If only the most hardcore of fanboys understand your films, because they have prior comic book knowledge most of the audience simply doesn't have, then you have a problem. Plain and simple.
      I don't mind "interpretations". But in the end, Snyder meant for all of these things to mean ONE specific thing. So anyone interpreting the spear to mean something other than a Jesus reference, is wrong. Therefore this whole "fans were saying this stuff ages ago" is just a wrong argument.
    4. Schuyler Finley
      April 7, 2018
      But did it have to stated in the film? The Anti-Life equation was probably meant to be explored in JL or it’s cancelled sequel. The whole point of Knightmare was to raise questions and speculation that will be answered in the next films.
    5. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      There was no point to the Knightmare scene.
      It had absolutely nothing to do with the Batman vs Superman plot.
      People argue it was to show Bruce's paranoia for Superman, but we all know that's not the true as to why Snyder added this (because if it were, where do the parademons come from? Why the omega symbol? Why the Flash cameo?). It had no business being in the film and only detracted from what was already a very narratively disjointed film.
      Seriously, there are fan cuts out there that completely removed the scene and the movie flows so much better.
    6. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      Your still thinking Snyder is nihilistic proves you can’t interpret the fundamental message of BvS. That’s sad, and means you have no right to criticize the movie from a place of any kind of knowledge.
      Are you not familiar with the process of writing? That’s literally how writing a story works - the writer puts various symbols and motifs and themes into the work with deliberate intentions as to what they represent or mean or allude to. That’s how it has always been and always will be.
      And Snyder’s saying what he had in mind has not stopped him from welcoming other’s interpretations; he repeatedly shows in those Vero comments a respect for different theories and things presented by fans.
      Who didn’t get the spear thing? 0.o
    7. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      Snyder being oppressively dark and moody is not a damn secret, child.
    8. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      Yet the point of BvS is hope and that Superman’s ideals are all true, and that the world’s current cynicism and distrust is false (maybe that’s why you hate it so much; you sure seem to act cynical most the time...)
    9. Seb
      April 8, 2018
      Ohh, soooo hopeful!!!
      The movie spends 95% of its runtime breaking and hating Superman, and then when he ultimately wins the moral battle with Batman in the end, he fucking dies. Just because "the point" is that Superman was right, doesn't change the fact that the first two acts are completely void of hope, joy, happiness, and loaded with tragedy, depression and brooding. And then the third act, Superman dies. A simple message is not enough to override 3 hours of trauma and relentless drama.
    10. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      Also, stop with your arrogant lectures about how smart you are and how stupid others are for not getting a very shallow, easy to grasp film.
      Have you ever realized that, as a teenager yourself, you are just nowhere near as smart as the overwhelming majority of people whom you speak to? No?? Yeah... that's all the proof I need to show you that you indeed lack proper intellect and a shred of self-awareness.
    11. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      I never once said such a thing.
      It’s no harder to grasp than, say, TDK, I don’t think, but for some reason (I’d think mostly bias), that hasn’t stopped plenty of Snyder hate trolls from failing to do just that.
      Lol! Your insults calling me a kid and stuff really don’t affect me, so you’re gonna have to try a different method if you wanna get under my skin
    12. Seb
      April 8, 2018
      But you never denied you're a kid. Which is an implicit confirmation if you ask me.
      I understood everything there is to understand about BvS, the very first time I watched it. There's nothing complex about that film.
      Want to see genuinely hard to understand symbolism? Watch La Promesse by the brothers Dardenne. But you never will, cause you know absolutely NOTHING about filmmaking, never mind artistic filmmaking.
    13. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      Anti-Life Equation controlling Superman in the Knightmare Scene? Is that what you’re talking about? ‘Cause that was actually pretty obvious to me...
    14. Seb
      April 7, 2018
      No it fucking wasn't. There's literally no mention of ANY of it.
      Besides, you don't even fucking know what that is, considering you yourself have admitted you don't read comics (yes, you've actually, literally said that in one of your past comments). Your lies are finally catching up with you, it seems.
    15. NinjaGamer13
      April 7, 2018
      You didn’t pick up that Darkseid was controlling Supes? And yet you’re claiming to grasp the movie easily? Lol
      Love how you always lie. More than any person on this site, from either side of the debate. It must be a pathological condition. But the really interesting part comes in with the irony that you do so WHILE BERATING OTHERS and calling TNEM liars, and very passionately and often at that! I would be highly intrigued to see some kind of profile done by a psychologist for you. It would truly be fascinating.
2. Schuyler Finley
  April 6, 2018
  And then the Knightmare was gonna be explored more in JL anyway.
3. Hunter Zolomon
  April 6, 2018
  They report more comic news then Batman News does right now, they have their clickbait articles but they also report actual news instead of what ever Snyder says on his crappy social media account.
  1. Nightwing Fan J
    April 7, 2018
    Batman-News has a comic section. It's just really difficult to try and find good articles from them. It's like wading through a swamp trying to find a Big Mac.
    1. Hunter Zolomon
      April 7, 2018
      They have a comics section but they barely post anything in it beyond reviews and what new comics are coming out.
    2. Nightwing Fan J
      April 7, 2018
      Yeah, I guess you're right.
DudeofSteel1Million
April 6, 2018
True - But at least he's doing it at a time where it no longer matters to anyone but a small group of fans. It's annoying, but it's skewed to a minority.
Meanwhile, a certain other filmmaker went out of his way to explain away numerous plot threads and problems people had while the film was still trying to maintain its relevance (cough... Rian Johnson... cough) and it came across as desperation.
1. Schuyler Finley
  April 6, 2018
  "But TLJ made a billion and was progressive and good"
  I'm not a SW fan or even watch the film t be honest, but I could still smell the bullshit when I read the film's plot.
  1. DudeofSteel1Million
    April 6, 2018
    I'm a huge SW fan. Been one my whole life. That's why I couldn't despise "Disney Wars" any more than I already do for the crap they pulled.
    It's also ironic to me how people will flip the hell out over supposed mischaracterizations of Superman and Batman, but they'll excuse the hopeful and optimistic Luke Skywalker becoming a jaded, cynical and downtrodden failure who was tempted to kill his own nephew in cold blood and leave his friends and family to suffer and die while he sulked.
    1. Schuyler Finley
      April 6, 2018
      I'm surprised that some fans are still defending Rey despite that TLJ proved that she's a Mary Sue.
      "It's also ironic to me how people will flip the hell out over supposed mischaracterizations of Superman and Batman, but they'll excuse the hopeful and optimistic Luke Skywalker becoming a jaded, cynical and downtrodden failure who was tempted to kill his own nephew in cold blood."
      I laugh when folks, especially those on here, try to defend Luke's character assassination, even when Mark Hamil made it known that he didn't like it.
    2. DudeofSteel1Million
      April 6, 2018
      Rey is totally a Mary Sue. And it's a shame... There are plenty of badass female Star Wars characters (Leia being one of them) who have been powerful, but still vulnerable and believable, so I don't know why it suddenly had to change.
      As for Luke.... well.... It wasn't "Luke." It's "Jake Skywalker."
    3. Schuyler Finley
      April 6, 2018
      Hell, they could've did KOTR and have Revan be a woman like in the game.
    4. Rust
      April 7, 2018
      I loved BvS and TLJ for a lot of the same reasons.
2. Hunter Zolomon
  April 6, 2018
  Won't argue about Johnson with TLJ, easily the worst SW film since AOTC.

Nightwing Fan J

April 6, 2018

Unused Aquaman armor in Justice League https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

NinjaGamer13
April 7, 2018
I just want the BvS look back...
1. Nightwing Fan J
  April 7, 2018
  Honestly, I think the BvS look is stupid. It serves no purpose. This on the other hand looks good AND serves as body armor.
  1. NinjaGamer13
    April 7, 2018
    Tell that to gladiators. It does provide armored protection in some parts, and it definitely provides mobility, which I would imagine is highly important for under the water. Plus it looks awesomest :P What I want is for him to wear that like more casually or when he’s on the hunt, and then when it comes to more official or serious business or he wants to be more regal, he wears his JL armor.
    1. Nightwing Fan J
      April 8, 2018
      I just think in this world, it's not practical to just have a single shoulder pad. And I don't think it looks cool anyway. Just my opinion though. I guess I can agree with that last part.

Spenddollarz

April 6, 2018

The Snyder is gonna be released whether you Snyder haters like it or not lol it's just a matter of when. WB is not stupid there is a very high demand for the cut from hardcore and general fans alike that are intrigued to see what Snyder's cut would have been like. I'm betting better then that garbage we got from Whedon

myzterius
April 7, 2018
https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
1. kan
  April 7, 2018
  This made me HARD...and I can not lie.
  1. myzterius
    April 7, 2018
    Lol
J.K.2019
April 7, 2018
They won't spend a penny more on that disaster.And, general audience has already moved on.
Kerk Lastnameless
April 7, 2018
No, they ARE stupid. And you are stupid for thinking they are not.
kan
April 7, 2018
Where is Batman's other hand? He is distracted from the CAUSE!!
Reverse_Flash
April 7, 2018
I think those 2 kids are Schuyler_Finley and NinjaGamer13.
1. kan
  April 7, 2018
  Schuyler_Finley is the one dressed as Jason Todd...WHICH BTW IS CRUEL...because he is DEAD. Nice one Finley. Way to cut deep.

Ben Dutchover

April 6, 2018

I am actually very hopeful that all, if not most, of the solo films will be better than JL which is a shame. They might even help boost some enthusiasm about JL after another WW, Aquman, and Flash's solo movie. What I want to know is when are we getting a freaking MOS 2 and a Cyborg solo movie too? Such a shame DC didn't go that route 1st.

Royal Ruler
April 6, 2018
Cyborg should be a part of a teen titans movie. I don't want cyborg movie but a Starfire movie maybe.
Jack Jensen
April 7, 2018
I think a Titans movie would be good for Cyborg and a good way to introduce maybe a Robin and Beast Boy, Starfire, etc. it already has a built in audience through the cartoons as well as animated films. Cyborg would probably have a little too much CGI therefore it would be a costly film and they know it probably won’t make big money unless the movie was a GREAT film.
I will say Ray Fisher was perfectly cast and he did help the idea of having a Cyborg movie with his performance in JL. He was the most underrated character in the whole movie. Out of the whole league I think he actually gave the best performance. It’s sad we didn’t get to see his backstory and other scenes of his that were cut. Give him another JL movie and have him in the Flash movie and maybe throw him in another film with a cameo and if the audience continues to like his work and if DC can get back on track making a few good films in a row then I think just like black panther did well due to it being a good film and having that marvel success backing it up.. cyborg could repeat that success and it would be nice to see another African-American led superhero film do well at the box office and with critics.

Frank

April 6, 2018

Everyone (except WB) knows that the real version is better then what we saw.

Ben Dutchover
April 6, 2018
I do believe that. Do you know that my Daughter (14 years old) had a major concern when she saw the run time of 1 hour and 59 minutes before she even watched JL? These idiots were fools to have Whedon cut that movie down, re-shoot, and give it that kind of runtime when you have 2 new members to introduce, especially when one of those characters back story was key to the plot of the freaking movie. A 14 year old already not sure about a movie she was so totally looking forward to once she saw the run-time.
1. Jack Jensen
  April 7, 2018
  I usually hate to defend Joss Whedon but apparently it was the CEO of WB himself Kevin Tsujihara that demanded the run time be under 2 hours. That’s why it’s like 1 hour 59 minutes and however many seconds. I really don’t understand why you would make that decision at the last minute. Why not make that decision BEFORE the script was even written!?
  It just shows you the CEO has NO PLAN and therefore the people that are blaming Zack Snyder or any one individual OTHER than the man at the top (CEO TSUJIHARA) need to understand Zack was trying his best to build a universe based on the guidelines and structure he was presented with. I will admit Zack doesn’t seem to know how to put a story together within a 2 hour and 20 or even 30 minute time frame because as we saw with BVS his extended cut was 3 hours long and apparently there was still PLENTY of footage left on the cutting room floor.
  This is the reason why Tsujihara demanded the under 2 hour runtime was due to BVS being so long. But again, you can’t wait until after the film is already shot (and have reshoots done on top of that) and expect the editors to put a good film together that is under 2 hours. Hopefully, just like how Patty Jenkins got to make her Wonder Woman film the way she wanted to, James Wan will get the same amount of flexibility instead of having to be told what to do and how long the movie needs to be. It shows that WB is being 100% reactionary to what the critics are saying and not even necessarily listening to the fans (which is why JL made less than even Man Of Steel at the box office).
  Hopefully with Walter Hamada taking control he will be the person who makes all of those critical decisions. He did take New Line (the studio that works under Warner Brothers) and was making really good movies for them that also made good money. He is apparently very close to James Wan and has some good friends that are in the DC Family so let’s hope he can build a good structure for the DC Universe. I don’t mind having solo films and telling individual stories but there are SO MANY opportunities to make great team films with Justice League, Suicide Squad, etc.
  1. kan
    April 7, 2018
    ...also applies to most corporations.
2. Frank
  April 8, 2018
  Yeah! I don't think the Snyder's cut would be the best CBM ever, but I doubt it would be worst than the Wheedon one. That run time was ridiculous and some parts was too fast. At least the original version would be more coherent as we can watch in the bigger version of BvS. There was A LOT to show to people in theaters and WB cut it to do something more commercial again.
Qthetar .
April 7, 2018
Lol. I think everyone knows it’s the unwatchable version.
1. Frank
  April 8, 2018
  Without some of those jokes and their moustache it can't be worst. And the "unwatchable" word is from WB, who did a worst cut from BvS and "reworked" and made a strange movie with SS.
  1. Qthetar .
    April 8, 2018
    Lol. Snyder Cut didn’t change the stupid plot and the depressing tone it had. It was the same movie. The only thing it added is extra boredom. His movies has no joyment, no fun. Stupid outcomes. I can go on for ever. MOS was just as bad, had really good things going for it but got ruined because of his dumb decisions and his camera work was terrible. He botched a movie that had Nolan working on it. That’s how bad Hack is.
    Ayer made 4 or 5 hours of footage. That alone explains it. Dumb directors and their decisions.
    1. Frank
      April 8, 2018
      Hater detected.
Reverse_Flash
April 7, 2018
The unwatchable cut?
The one they thought was so bad they fired Snyder and spent millions of dollars to trying fix?
1. Frank
  April 8, 2018
  WB fired good parts of BvS as we can see in the Ultimate Edition. They fired even the black suit easter egg that was about some seconds. Do you trust in this the WB's CEO and his friends? Watch what he did with SS. I don't think the Snyder's version is too different, but of course it's more coherent because it was his movie when untill now we saw only good things (or beautiful scenes at least) from it. His version is not a Wheedon half-movie with a 2 hours cut! I'm not talking that the Snyder's cut is awesome, I'm not saying that everyone would love it, but probably it's is more coherent with the storyline and of course it's nice.
  And there's no erased mousteche. haha
  1. Reverse_Flash
    April 8, 2018
    BvS had to be cut or else it would have been a bigger financial letdown.
    The black suit was pointless.
    WB has done many things wrong. Firing Snyder and bringing Whedon is not one of them.
    1. Frank
      April 10, 2018
      Hater.
    2. Reverse_Flash
      April 10, 2018
      Just being honest.
    3. Frank
      April 10, 2018
      No.
    4. Reverse_Flash
      April 10, 2018
      Yes.
kan
April 7, 2018
No one knows shit. Dats the facts. Harsh reality is always better than false hope.
1. Frank
  April 8, 2018
  BvS proves that the original cut can be better. Who hates BvS still prefer the longer cut. It's more coherent and not too fast, there's a lack of these in JL. I'm not talking that the Snyder did the best movie ever, I think it was not that different, tbh, but we can see some parts could improve the story without obvious jokes and a strange mouth CGI.
NinjaGamer13
April 7, 2018
Impossible to say
1. NinjaGamer13
  April 7, 2018
  + more character development
  + no conflicting tone
  + way better cinematography
  + no CGI faces
  + less bland score (if it’s finished, or at least in theory)
  ...
Frank
April 8, 2018
Yes. I don't think he did a totally different movie, but of course more coherent.

Javier Morales Luna

April 7, 2018

The Snyder cut is most likely filled with more symbolism that nobody, even the deepest comic book nerds, would understand, character depth that although captures a deep emotional essence of that character does not tie well into the development of the plot, and more visuals & CGI.

Zach is good at many parts of movie making, but he doesn't know how to tell a story and misses certain basic elements of how the story should flow. This is why he's such a polariIpol director; because he's not a bad director.....but not a good one either.

#ForgettheSnydercut

Javier Morales Luna
April 7, 2018
Polarizing director*
Royal Ruler
April 7, 2018
I already forgotten about that unwatchable Snyder cut, it's the zombies that still bark about it
NinjaGamer13
April 7, 2018
Quiet

dugzino

April 7, 2018

Well when even the actors of the movie agree with that... If only we could get that epic cut :(
If only we could get those pure Snyder materials, damn it.

Brad Xint

April 7, 2018

Snydercut or return of zack snyder

Royal Ruler
April 7, 2018
Go to Vero and ask Zack the hack himself
1. Brad Xint
  April 7, 2018
  Déjà fait

Aleksander Bibik

April 7, 2018

Even cast agree with #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement. WB would be stupid if they decide to not release Snyder Original Cut. It's a chance to make a lot money twice, espacialy when people are begging for it since it hit theaters on November 17 2017 til today and I think it will be noise for a long time until studio have no choice but release it.

Danny Neiba

April 7, 2018

Aqeel (the guy wearing tshirt) is my friend on IG. He is the biggest DC fan I know.

UltimateEdition

April 7, 2018

Hey Batman news... no article about why Wayne manor was abandoned?

kan
April 7, 2018
I am sure it was an allegory to a broken and abandoned past, which we will be announced on Vero...so stay tuned. The kicker is, nothing screams Frank Miller's Batman like a modern Le Corbusier type house along the lake.
UltimateEdition
April 7, 2018
wrong. Z
Mike 201
April 7, 2018
It’s something else Snyder killed off. Lol

kan

April 7, 2018

Fan sites, like this one, are only reporting on this crap because there is not much coming from DC about the DCEU. We are in a FUNK. Give it a few more months, starting around SDCC, we will be hit with all kinds of Aquatitan news. Hopefully an announcement for MoS2.

kan
April 7, 2018
Ugh! You could have just punched me in the sac instead.
kan
April 7, 2018
I have always liked Aquaman. I could easily turn into a FANBOI over it, but I have to check myself. How many times has the DCEU/WB let us down? There is a reason Aquaman's shit was cut from JL, so Wan could tell his story. That was a good "cut" in my book.
I agree, whatever Superman we get next will be a departure from the past, which makes me want it more. LOL
BROWN_KNIGHT 4 Trump
April 7, 2018
Along with the Birth of Joker. To go along with the 7 joker films in production now.

Reverse_Flash

April 7, 2018

Just saw the vid. Ezra was hitting on that guy.

#NotMyFlash

kan
April 7, 2018
Totally put his Grindr handle on that guys action figure box.
Value of action figure before; $24.95, after; $22.95.
Skandov
April 7, 2018
Why the fuck does it matter that he's hitting on him? It doesn't have anything to do with his role as The Flash... Seriously, people like you just shows why some animals eat their babies. Grow up.
1. kan
  April 7, 2018
  Musing about #NotMyFlash hitting on that to "why some animals eat their babies."
  #FarSTRETCH https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
  1. Skandov
    April 7, 2018
    Haha love that gif
    1. kan
      April 7, 2018
      I have a cat that looks just like that. I call him LittleBastard.
    2. Skandov
      April 7, 2018
      Does he stretch aswell? :)
    3. kan
      April 7, 2018
      Hmmm? Good question. I will schedule a testing phase tonight, and let you know. ;-)
    4. kan
      April 7, 2018
      HAAAA... us comic nerds would shite our pants over that. Outside the realm, be like , "Whaaa? I don't get it."
  2. BROWN_KNIGHT 4 Trump
    April 7, 2018
    Looks like just my cat.
2. Reverse_Flash
  April 7, 2018
  Who says it matters?
  Calm down.
Reverse_Flash
April 7, 2018
Well yes, he was poorly written.
Add a bad casting and you've got a crap character.

Reverse_Flash

April 7, 2018

We need more Batman Forever news.

That Guy

April 7, 2018

The Snyder-Cut is an idea Snyder fans made up and won't let go. Plus, why does Ezra run like a rag doll as the Flash? https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

NinjaGamer13
April 7, 2018
Are trolling or are you genuinely this uninformed?
1. That Guy
  April 7, 2018
  Art thou butt-hurt?

BROWN_KNIGHT 4 Trump

April 7, 2018

Because of what the studio did and some really dumb decisions on Snyders part we still hearing from about these 2 films. Until we get into next year or wb comes out and squashes any ideas about a snydercut, it will not end even after Aquaman releases.

Thinwheat

April 7, 2018

Seems like a really nice guy. I've heard some horror stories of celebrities at these fan signings, but Ezra seems pretty generous and polite here.

Batman News Archive

'Justice League' star Ezra Miller compliments fan wearing a custom "Snyder Cut" t-shirt

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