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I love The Verge. It's one of my favorite websites (after Batman News and Spider-Man News, of course). It's extremely well designed, and it helped inspire some of the design choices here on Batman News.
In their latest video, The Verge breaks down the upcoming Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice fight in some key categories. It's a humorous look back at the characters of Batman and Superman over the years. Check it out!
SOURCE: The Verge
This is an archive of Batman-News.com from 2010 to 2025. For the latest news, check out BatmanNews.com
This was terrible. Everyone knows that superpowers don't matter if you don't know how to fight! And Batman was the one who taught him how to, talk more of being knowledgeable in over 270 martial arts.
Basically, I just don't think he dove into the topics well enough. I mean batman has had 5 sidekicks, each with some defining thing going for them. And Superman wins?!
Logically, trying to pit a regular man (however perfect he may be) against an alien that can withstand nuclear bombs is like pitting an egg against a hammer. No amount of martial arts can help you.
Except it has, Axxell and he's beaten Superman several times. Of course a regular man would have no chance, but Batman isn't just any sort of guy. He knows Superman's weakness, and has contingency plans for everyone.
I don't think you've heard of that movie/episode where Batman beat Superman (again) right before he died. Have a little faith in humanity, we can overcome amazing things, and Batman proves just that. Besides if Sups somehow got the upperhand, a quick flash of Kryptonite would put him in place. Ya' know what Bat's weakness is? Nothing. There's no universe were Batman ever beat him at everything, (that I know of) except talking.
That's because it was written that way; you'd have to have the IQ of a brick to fall for the stuff Superman does when dealing with Batman. I mean, if I knew Batman had Kryptonite, why would I fight him close range when I've got heat vision? You'd have to shut down your brain to believe Batman getting even close to a 25% success rate against Superman is in any way realistic.
Written or not written that way, he still won.
Besides, you would have to shut down your brain or have the IQ of a wall to believe the stuff Superman does when dealing with anyone. I mean this guy can fly at the speed of light (some say), but if that were possible it would be impossible to see where he is going, hell even running at the Flash's speed would blind him to incoming objects.
All of Superman's battles are unrealistic! With the kind of strength he is said to have a single punch from him would not just create a crater the size of New York but disintegrate his foe on a subatomic level (obviously killing him as well). But are we seriously going to argue the realisticness of Superman and Batman? Or comic books, for that matter of fact?When we both know the most realistic between the two (which even the video mentions) is Batman.
I'm analyzing the scenario based on the rules of the DC universe. Isn't that the point of the question; assuming that the DC universe is real? If the DC universe says Superman can punch a crater into the earth, then I have to believe a character with no superpowers on that same universe wouldn't stand a chance. Superman has been shown flying and moving at superhuman speeds without any "sight" issues, so why should that be a problem? If DC says Superman can shoot lasers out of his eyes, the I have to believe a slower, weaker human like Batman can't possibly beat him, unless he's a total idiot.
Another reason Superman can never beat Batman is simply because he isn't prepared to do what is necessary and for good reason. Though Superman doesn't agree with Batman's brutal vigilante way of justice, he still recognizes him as both a hero and a good person. Knowing this and being the boy scout he is, Superman would definitely pull his punches and try to reach him with reason. Therefore giving Batman the opportunity to have the upper hand. Batman, however, has the will and conviction to do what he truly feels is necessary. WHATEVER IT TAKES. Even at the risk of his own life! If he truly considered Superman to be too great of a threat (Like destroying nearly 80% of a city and its population to stop one guy.) he would put him down. He wouldn't blindly rush in either, he would have a plan as well as 3 other contingency plans in case the previous fell through. Yes, superman is ridiculously powerful. But all the power in the universe means nothing if you don't have the intellect to apply it. Winner = Batman
Did you not see MoS or read Death of Superman? I'm pretty sure he can so what he needs for the greatest good
Not against a comrade.
That's all fine and good, but we're talking about a scenario where they're fighting each other. Under normal circumstances Superman wouldn't fight Batman for the reasons you mentioned. But if push comes to shove,and he had a real reason to, Superman can beat him. The only way Batman stands a chance is if Superman holds back. Otherwise, it's no contest.
You're right, he could. But he won't. Superman will always hold back against an ally. SUPERMAN WONT KILL ANOTHER HERO BECAUSE IT GOES AGAINST HIS MORAL CODE.
"SUPERMAN WONT KILL ANOTHER HERO BECAUSE IT GOES AGAINST HIS MORAL CODE."
Same applies to Batman. But that's not the point; in this scenario they're fighting, and if they truly believed killing was the only recourse, Superman would win.
Okay, since you're playing that card I have a lot of reasons for you why Batman would win over Superman.
If the DC Universe says a character like Batman who is so feared that even his villains fear him (and others of course), that he's proof that you don't need powers to be a superhero and he's got a contingency plan for everything, then I'd have to believe someone like Superman (who's as fast as a speeding bullet, yet can't dodge a Kryptonite one) doesn't stand a chance.
A master martial artist (like Batman) can move five times faster than a snake. Can you imagine how fast Batman can move?!
Look there are other things Superman can use as well like his allies (which is fair), his socialite ness, after all not every battle is physical, Bats could easily destroy his image with his skill and resources.
I can never ever take any serious who gives the excuse of Batman not having any superpowers as a reason why he'd be beaten by one who does.
That made no sense but the fact that batman has never beaten Superman because he is human leads me to believe that his lack of powers and inability to counter Superman contributes to his hilariously embarrassing loss. You said yourself that Superman could fly at superspeeds and punch his enemies into mist. What makes you think he wouldn't do that to batman
Made no sense? Man you are so fucking moronic! Are you going to so blatantly ignore the fact that Batman beat his ass in TDKR. I don't care how much power you say Supes was holding back, (which often tends to be over exaggerated). Superman gave him his all! Stop saying that just because Superman is superstrong of fast and he held back that it's only logical reason Batman won.
I mean even if he was actually holding back the least he could do was defend himself against every damn blow! Even the fact that at that point he was significantly older would be a better excuse than 'he's almighty'.
Maybe you didn't understand my comment. I mean common' fucking read! I said that (with his said power) Superman (scientifically) would be able to not just punch his enemies, but 'disintegrate them on an atomic level', which would also kill him as well! Note that this is all assuming the things in the comics were real and adhered to our physical laws, not a writer's imagination.
As for a reason why Superman wouldn't do that to him, umm, how 'bout emotional weakness? Superman definitely isn't as willing as Batman is to go a certain distance as Batman. In simple words, he's too humane, and to the point that it's a weakness. Batman will do whatever it takes. And this isn't just evident in what he says but his contingency plans and the way Superman trusts him.
He was obviously holding back. He spent most of the fought trying to talk to bats who ended up taking a heart attack to get out of the fight cause he's such a pussy. And I find it funny that you of all people are calling me idiotic considering you believe a human that isn't even the best at what he does can beat a superpowered alien who is for all intents and purposes a god that has fought and beaten cosmic level combatants. And you bat fans need to stop saying that Superman isn't willing to go to certain extremes because if I'm correct he's never taken care of the Joker or any of his other villains. In Injustice Gods Among Us TWO FUCKING BATMEN AND SEVERAL MEMBERS OF THE FUCKING JUSTICE LEAGUE COULDN'T TAKE SUPERMAN!!! BATMAN STANDS NO CHANCE BUDDY. Hell if you haven't already, just watch all the cut scenes on YouTube. Fucking fucktard
Most of the fight? As usual, you fanboys give excuses as to why a so called god can't take care of a 'mere mortal'. Assuming most of the fight was actually spent talking, since it clearly didn't work, wouldn't Superman at least averted to defending himself against the blows sent to him or just in fact holding up at his end. That's wasn't even an extreme, it was a necessity. But he STILL didn't do it!
I don't know where you're getting the information that he died due to a 'heart attack', but there are many ways a man at his age can die, including heart failure. Besides, I distinctly remember Batman saying something to Superman, heart attacks victims can't talk during the event. And for it to be an attack that kills instantly I'm quite confident he would have fought significantly weaker.
Superman's a god who's beaten cosmic level combatants?! Well, that's a first. Stop mentioning that likes it's supposed to mean something, the Joker's a god, to. In fact, just about anybody is a god, even Batman. You say Superman took down the League, well so has Batman.
By taken care, I never meant kill, you sadistic piece of shit. But, if we are talking about that you need to know he has before. But what's killing going to do? Batman doesn't need to. It's never been necessary in any of his combats against anyone.
Once again, shitty writing and the bomb I mentioned before factored into the fought and Superman still ended on top. I never said batman died and you're confusing a stroke for a heart attack which he suffered after his beat Superman speech funnily enough. And finally, Joker isn't a god, he's an intelligent psychotic terrorist. Batman isn't a godhe's only written that way and then the next comic he gets beaten by Street levels like bane lol. Batman has and does kill alot of people. Technically, he killed Joker in killing joke. And he definitely killed kgbeast. He also set a bunch of gangsters on fire and hung a guy from the bat plane and said he was better off dead so don't pull that "Batman don't kill" bullshit. Honestly this argument is a waste of both of our times because neither of us will believe in the other's argument and we'll just keep insulting each other. I still believe Superman wins because it's honestly the only logical decision and you still believe that batman wins based off an elseworlds comic that isn't even Canon. And you're also not correctly seeing the outcome of the fight
Excuses, excuses, excuses. You say he was bombed? Like I said, that shouldn't matter if he's invulnerable, and especially if he can 'withstand a nuclear bomb'.
Superman ended on top? Superman was at Bats' knees. He was so beaten down he couldn't even look at him. Your lack of knowledge of heart attacks is leading you to believe he had one, whereas he died. A stroke is a brain attack. A heart attack stops the flow of blood to the heart in an artery. And it wasn't funny. Batman did it KNOWING it was close to his time.
Joker isn't a terrorist. But he is a god. And so is Batman. So don't go boasting around that he is one just because Jor El or DC christened him one. They did to all their powerful characters. So what he's been beaten by Bane? Honestly, that's the only thing you have on him. Not only did he lose because of shitty writing, but because it shows us fans that villains can get the upper hand, and that good won't always triumph over every battle. Unlike the nonsense Superman comics spits out. Besides, Superman get's beaten by people of his 'level' all the time. Example, Doomsday, he doesn't just beat him, but can't lose to him.
I'm done wasting my time. If you want to believe that Batman would win for whatever shitty reason you do, like Canon or non. Then that's your business.
Answer: MORAL-FUCKING-CODE!!!!
A snake's max speed is 5 mph lol
It would take light 25,000 (light) years to travel to the nearest galaxy, Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy. Your point?
You're just mad cause we Superman fans are right
Please, don't flatter yourself. Really though, you look pathetic saying that.
I actually am a Superman fan, and I seriously love him. The difference is I'm just not too biased to think that a guy who can move at 'the speed of light', yet can't dodge a Kryptonite bullet (& never has) would desolate a man who scientifically would move faster than one.
Heck ask anyone, like 99% of the times they fight Batman wins, anyway. And do reply that it's illogical or anything pretty much none of Supes comics are.
It's called plot induced stupidity. If supes went full power all the time it wouldn't be entertaining which is what comics are meant to do
Superman's 'full power' is super speed, etc. That's it. Anything above that, including lightspeed, is also stupidity induced.The difference is it's advantageous.
Sure, it wouldn't be as entertaining to always see him at full power. But in non-literal reality Batman's strength is close to Superman's. Mind you that that judgement is based on what their levels of physical prowess and strength, etc, actually are, not just what you read in comic books. Or what is entertaining, which Batman exceeds Superman at, as well.
Superman's feats of strength and speed are constant or at least in Canon content which means it's not plot induced stupidity. And did you just say that batman is just as strong as SUPERMAN?! AHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! Superman's punches to H'el literally shook the earth. He benched the weight of the earth five days straight. He can lift in excess of 200 quintillion tons. Batman had to take steroids to lift a small boulder lmaooooo!!! Batman and Superman's varying entertainment values are extremely subjective. For example, I find Superman comics to be more entertaining that batman comics lol.
Superman's powers are as constant as the people who write. So what they're Canon. Is that supposed to mean anything more than it's excepted stupidity? Let me ask you a question, if TDKR became Canon would you except Batman could beat Superman?
Superman can lift the Earth? Then explain to me why he can't the Daily Planet's 'orb' without struggling. All that material is bullshit. Why are you so biased to the point you can't even see that? That part about Batman need steroids to lift a boulder is bull shit. Dick Grayson lifted one the size of the Daily Planet's orb without breaking a sweat. Which is more than I can say for Superman.
But what you find entertaining is irrelevant. Batman has and always will be DC most important character. And that's because he racks in more money, not only because he's media productions are far better than Superman's, but because more people like him, and like to see him.
Why would The Batman even give Superman a chance? Batman is a ninja. Literally. Superman isn't. Game over in 10 seconds. If Batman really wanted to wreck Superman, which he doesn't, Superman would never see him coming.
They've been pals for 75 years in the comic books. So, let's just move on...wait for the movie. It'll be fun.
You're stupid if you think a human who fights street levelers like killer croc and not to mention alot of other villains he's not even the best martial artist in the DC universe. He's even admitted that Superman would beat him if he wanted to. Now why would SUPERMAN a GOD for all intents and purposes who has thwarted Galaxy and even Universal and multidimensional threats. He can easily destroy planets and when bloodlusted he has taken on Darkseid. Batman struggles to defeat idols like bane and riddler
You're even more stupid to believe that just because Batman fights people like Killer Croc he isn't better than Superman. You may think Batman isn't the best fighter in the DC Universe, but he actually is. And this isn't just proven by one sentence where a DC character says 'you're better than me', this is proven by the whole DC Universe admitting it in it's thoughts, actions and behaviour. I mean look at Superman, just because Batman said that all the heads of Superman fans begin to swell.
Superman is not a god! Even if though I know there is some justification for that Batman is also one as well, heck, even Joker is said to be one. Superman isn't the only one who's thwarted those kind of things before to, in fact, often when the Justice League is up against a team with a character with strength greater than Superman's they often rely on Batman's solution.
You should be careful how you talk about Batman and his villains. There's never been a time he struggled to defeat the Riddler. I know he has Bane, but that's because he was unprepared or something. And that's okay. Compare that to Superman, whose first encounter with the Joker lead to a retreat and had difficulties apprehending him the rest of the time. Even though Batman never had a problem with Lex, once.
With all's said and done, it's at least nice to know Batman would still be Batman even without the sun.
Bronze Tiger, lady shiva, deathstroke, and prometheus have all beaten batman so he is not the best fighter. Superman shots LASERS FROM HIS EYES, LIFTS PLANETS, MOVES ACROSS GALAXIES FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT. BATMAN STANDS NO CHANCE. AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT SUPERMAN IS STILL SUPERIOR WITHOUT THE SUN BECAUSE OF HIS DENSER BODY STRUCTURE AND HIS MARTIAL ARTS TRAINING FROM FUCKING WONDER WOMAN. AND BTW IN THE KING JOKER STORYLINE SUPERMAN WAS THE ONE WHO BEAT JOKER SO SUCK IT YOU BATFANBOY GOD I BATMAN FANS NO OFFENSE TO THIS WEBSITE WHICH I ACTUALLY ENJOY
*coughs* and Bane..
Thanks lol I didn't add him because batman has beaten him at least once I'm sure
So because Batman has been beaten by a few of his enemies you think he isn't the best fighter in DC? You have to be a complete idiot to think that just because Batman has lost a fight to them he isn't better at it then them. If you do, then neither is Superman. Superman has been beaten by Zod, Doomsday (who doesn't just beat him, but destroys him), Darkseid, Dr Fate, Ultraman, Bizarro and Superboy Prime (you know he would). And all without the use of Kryptonite. Had enough? ...Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention Black Adam, that was hilarious.
And while you may say that these guys have super strength or etc that makes it considerably unfair, remember Batman has it worse, especially with Killer Croc.
The only reason why Batman lost is for the same fucking reason Superman is able to travel at the (so called) speed of light and fly around so fast he reverses Earth's orbit and still not be able to dodge a Kryptonite bullet (I mean he's said to be faster than a fucking speeding bullet)! It's the way the writers/ authors want it to go!
Superman is still superior without the sun? Bullshit. Superman couldn't fight of a fucking pack of wolves without the sun. So what Wonderwoman trained him? Batman did to. That doesn't make him a better fighter than one who traveled the fucking globe learning over 270 martial arts and being able to identify each one in a fight. Especially since he was trained by Wonder Woman who most likely didn't even learn much (or as much as Bats). I mean when have you ever seen Wonder Woman fight in a way that you could actually vouch displayed martial arts prowess and be correct?
And then there's that stupid statement about body density. As if to say a thicker body actually matters. Batman can actually send his hand flying at a speed close to that of a bullet. Do you think his thick chest will help him then?
I mean and for all those amazing features you could say about Sups how come he can't put aside his arch nemesis ( who seems like his only enemy), Lex Luthor, once and for all. A man who isn't just powerless, but only has intelligence and money as the only things going for him?
Look you over enthusiastically biased Superman fan, every comic book exaggerates each of these characters to/ at some point. I like Superman, but you have to be stupid to not agree his authors don't suffer some sort of mental retardation. It's because of those people he's mentioned to have superspeed and people like you believe he can travel faster than the speed of light because of a comic book. Even this video mentions Batman is the most realistic character, (especially between the two), so just get over yourself.
The thing is, all of the people you've named he's fought he's beaten them more often than not. Black Adam has never beaten supes so scratch that and neither has Dr fate because they've never fought. You must not understand that enhanced physiology means his body is still above peak human not to mention he's no slouch when it comes to fighting. And batman is nowhere near lex luthor's intelligence level. Lex is a12 or 10 level intellect I forget and batman is only rumored to be nearly as smart as Einstein. Lex is also richer than Wayne. And finally, it's a comic book meaning is entirely fictional and not much is gonna be realistic and wtf does being realistic have to do with this fight. If you want realism read a textbook
You said Superman's beaten them more often than not. Hmmm... Let's see. Doomsday? Unarguably, no. Dr Fate? Probably not. Black Adam? No. Darkseid? No. Ultraman? No. Bizarro? Probably not. Superboy Prime? Probably not. Zod? Probably not.
Black Adam has not just beaten Superman, but embarrassingly destroyed along with Shazam. So, yes, they have fought. If you don't remember/know it there's a vid on Youtube.
So what enhanced physiology means that? He still isn't the best fighter. And fighting ability has nothing to do with his strength.
What is a level 12 intellect? You must be dumb to compare Bruce Wayne's intellect to Lex's. And here's the thing, Einstein wasn't really smart at all. In fact, his brain developed slower than must people and weighed significantly less; he was a high school drop out.
Lex Luthor is in no way richer than Wayne. Wayne Enterprises is a multinational conglomerate business, whereas LexCorp is a multinational corporation. And while LexCorp is a conglomerate business type, it has far fewer subsidiaries than Wayne's enterprise. Wayne's enterprise owns part of LexCorp. At one point not only did Wayne own it, but he actually bought it.
In fact, there are few places you can walk in in Gotham city that don't belong to Bruce. His forefather's are responsible for creating Gotham city through Wayne Enterprises (which was changed from WayneCorp in the 1860s), and have been way ahead of any other business especially in the field of tech, for like, forever. The only rival to Wayne Enterprises is LexCorp, and while many consider the same vice versa, you should be careful to know that Lex's corporation is actually a rival to Wayne's. Meaning it holds the 'no 1' title and 'the Corp' is it's main competitor, simple.
I'm so done with you kid. That fight is from a cartoon. He and doomsday had one fight in which there was a draw because they both survived. Once again all those people he's beaten more often than not. And finally lex luthor has been proven to be smarter and richer than Mr Wayne. And Bruce Wayne is supposed to be as smart as Einstein so what does that tell you
For someone who's supposed to b done with me you keep coming back for more; I, on the other hand won't keep coming back. It's not like I'll say anything I haven't already anyway.
So what? Because Doomsday and him survive it's a draw? Come on! Even you should know Superman wouldn't be able to kill him even if he wanted to. So if the Dark Knight were to survive a fight against 'red, white and blue' would you call it a tie? Doomsday has had at least 3 fights with Superman I know so far. The first one, I can admit Superman won (or survived), but that was because Dooms had never experienced a fight with an Earth bound Kryptonian. Every other time after that Doomsday won, even in the fights I don't know about. And yes, I mean all of them! He's genetically programmed to.
And him beating the rest is just nonsense spat out of a person who clearly doesn't know much about there fights. The only reason why it says half of them would 'probably' is because while I have seen most of them actually beat him. I'm not sure he couldn't win in another competition. Oh! And because it's the only logical answer. Maybe he has beaten most of them once, but logically, he shouldn't be able.
Why? The only force that Doomsday cannot overcome, in ALL of the DC Universe, is Entropy. Comparing him to Black Adam is LITERALLY comparing an infant to a god. Even his combined efforts with Shazam couldn't save him. Ultraman is powered by an abundance of Kryptonite that, even under the sun, his weakness, never falls short of being able to beat Superman. Dr Fate actually once scarred Superman when he attacked him, leading to a retreat. Zod, interestingly, had his neck snapped in Man of Steel. But if not for that, would've, ideally one. Bizarro is like, the only one who you can say Sups beat. And twice, but those fights weren't Canon (& discontinued). Though Bizarro is, in fact, stronger than him.
You say Lex has been proven to be richer than Batman. Can you state some of that proof? And when you do, bare in mind a shitty comic book text isn't enough to validate your claims. Take a look at the comment above yours, I edited it to mention mine. The only thing your last statement tells me is that the person who wrote that shit must've been extremely drunk.
AND COMPARING BATMAN TO SUPERMAN IS THE SAME AS BLACK ADAM TO DOOMSDAY. The thing is batman wouldn't actually survive am encounter with supes in an actual fight which is the topic of our discussion. My reasoning is because he's not only beaten batman himself but countless others like those you stated that would destroy batman. Alright NOW I'll try not to reply anything lol
See! There you go! You just stated your problem. You believe 'Batman wouldn't beat Superman in a real encounter'. And that's absolutely untrue! First of all to even make your claim the least bit credible you need to define what you refer to as 'real' such that it satisfies both parties. And you just can't do that and have Superman come out on top!
You say he's beaten Bats countless of times. Your point? That can just as easily be reversed on you because Batman has not only beaten him more, but his wins are also more memorable. However, Superman has virtually NEVER beaten any of the people I've mentioned. Stories where you 'see' Superman moving 'passed galaxies at the speed of light were likely written by Jeph Loeb, who is considered EXTREMELY fictional even in the comic book world. And as I said before it would take millennials before he even got to the closest.
Who said the fight(s) I'm talking about are from a cartoon? You think because that's the only place where you saw them fight that's where I did to?! He and Doomsday had several fights.
After he freed one arm and smashed his way out of his buried vault, Doomsday went on a rampage in Midwestern America, where he first encountered the Justice League. He defeated the entire team of superheroes in a matter of minutes, which in turn attracted the attention of Superman. Most notable is the fact that the creature fought the whole time with literally one hand tied behind his back (due to his ancient burial cables), yet was still able to lay waste to all opposition and much of the surrounding area. The only Justice Leaguer who could defend herself against the creature was Maxima. The five leaguers, INCLUDING SUPERMAN combined their powers in order to take him down. They only succeeded in freeing his other hand.
And that was just ONE of their many battles. Recently Superman, in Action Comics, was said to have finally defeated him. It was later revealed that what he did was simply 'give himself as a host'. An editor of his comics said this about the issues 'think of Doomsday as a larvae, the final stage of him is taking place INSIDE Superman'. Did you hear that? Your supposed 'god' can't even beat a krytponian larvae. Imagine what's going to happen to him now.
Actually Superman does know how to fight. He went back to Kandor to train in Kryptonian martial arts and he also trained with Wonder Woman (who is arguably the best martial arts fighter in the DC universe).
Yes Alex, I know that. He trained with Wonder Woman and Batman, and learnt some Kryptonian martial arts. But I also know he learnt more than just one.
That's baloney on Wonder Woman. She is not one of the top martial fighters and she certainly is not in a league with Black Canary or Batman or Nightwing.
This is not an opinion. It's been stated in comics by Batman HIMSELF that he probably wouldn't beat Wonder Woman even without her powers. It was during an argument between Superman and Wonder Woman at the Watchtower where Superman said he could beat Wonder Woman and then he asked for Batman's opinion to which Bruce replied something along the lines of, " You're not going to like my answer Clark, I doubt even I could beat Diana without her powers"
Bottom Line: Don't like Wonder Woman? That's cool, but it doesn't take away the fact that Wonder Woman is one if not the most skilled fighter in the DC universe.
Okay, so the difference is Batman is recognised as the best by anyone whose ever fought him and you think Wonder Woman is actually better because he said that?
Not a smart decision to base fact upon.
I never said it was a fact that she is better than Batman. My "This is not an opinion" response was to, "She is not one of the top martial fighters" and as you can see I clearly wrote, "arguably the best martial arts" ..(emphasis on ARGUABLY) which means it is debatable..do you even read? What's not an "opinion" is that she "isn't a top fighter", she is recognized by more than enough people as one of the most skilled fighters in DC and it has been seen in comics several times. I mean technically it's all subjective and someone can also say that Batman isn't even in the top 50 best skilled fighters, right? It's an opinion but I think it's obvious that it's "fact" that Batman is one of the best because it's supported by most and it's seen in comics...same applies to Wonder Woman. Whether she is the best or not is debatable. Never said it was a fact that she was the most skilled. As stated in my second response, "one if not the most skilled fighter"... seriously, read thoroughly next time.
A master of 270 martial arts? Does this include....Kiai? (Skip to 3:20 for the good stuff!)
No offense but Batman fighting Superman is like a toddler trying to punch out a god lol. There are quite literally more than a thousand ways that supes would obliterate bats without breaking a sweat. Compare earth crushing to not even being able to move a small Boulder without steroids lol. It's okay tho we're all allowed to have our own opinions
I will repeat what I said to Allexx to you. Batman has beaten Superman, and several times.
I do believe we have a right to have our opinions, so let me share mine with you.
Superman, though admirable for his qualities, is one of the saddest heroes I've seen. I mean you think a guy who's faced Darkseid without twitching would be able to tell Lois how he feels about her. Or a guy who's eyes are bullet proof would be able to withstand the Joker's marble-grenades. And let's not even talk about magic's effect on him.
There are also a thousand ways Batman could obliterate anyway without breaking a sweat. And the thing is, HE KNOWS ALL OF THEM. He's also always ready to take them on at anytime as well. Is Sups?
There are some universes where Batman is more that capable of beating Superman. In those he either uses Kryptonite as a steroid, uses another source of power (like the Lantern ring), or just Kryptonite. What makes it even more embarrassing is that he doesn't even need to, he's beat him several times before without it. He even did it when he was just seconds to dying, just to let him know there was one person who could.
I can name only 2 occasions in which batman has been even close to beating Superman. Red son and tdkr. In both occasions batman ends up close to dying AND supes was either holding back offer weakened. Supes could vaporize batmans kryptonite from a far or punch him into mist. Bats is outclassed in every way besides pwp and that won't matter once Superman is flying at bats AT THE SPEED OF FUCKING LIGHT. No matter how skilled a human couldn't dream of reacting at that speed lol. Sorry bro
Can you at least name an instance in which batman beat Superman without exploring his weaknesses or other power sources
There are so many reasons in which Batman could beat Superman. I won't even waste my time explaining it one, the enemies who would like to see Sups gone, two, his allies, and three, fear. And let's not forget Bruce Wayne's socialite ness, adaptability, tactics & resourcefulness, too much damn emotional weaknesses, (bat vehicle) technology, Kryptonite (which cannot be ignored in this), the audience (because that's just how people want it) and because HE ALREADY HAS!
I can mention a few occasions in which Batman did without using Kryptonite. One was JLA #44, another is The Dark Knight Strikes Again, there's Batman #62, and finally somewhere in Hush. There was also one comic book where he did that was put out of continuity, I can't remember the name, and it's almost impossible to find anything discontinued, so I can't mention it, so there you have it.
In injustice Superman destroyed both batman and Bruce Waynes reputation. And reread those comics because in hush batman broke his hand and supes was holding back. In tdkr supes was fighting below 1% of his power, he was holding back, bats had help and he broke his ribs and had a heart attack. In JLA #44 Superman adapted to batmans contingency plan. Superman has never been beaten by batman and supes has always ended up as victor in their fights lol
Just shut the fuck up with 'Supes was holding back'! That's the only excuse that fanboys like you give for his defeats. And you know what? It doesn't make sense.
If has such dense a body and invulnerability know matter how much he held back ol' Bats would never be able to do that.
Now suppose Superman was actually holding back in TDKR. Why was he bleeding? The amount of power he choses to use in a battle has no effect on his invulnerability. Just scroll up to see the picture Sam replied to you. Does that look like the face of a man who's holding back? If Superman can withstand a nuclear bomb, which one of you said he could, then he should be able to withstand rocket launched from a simple tank.
Superman wasn't holding back. I've seen Superman hold back. Superman One was a good example of him holding back. And when compared to that (ibeing TDKR) was the only.
When fighting someone like Superman, who possesses super strength, speed & invulnerability, having help from a teenager can only be seen as leveling the playing field. You say he was fighting on fumes. I say that shouldn't matter for someone who's invulnerable. Especially when to you he could vaporize his only weakness and is nearly 'immune' to magic.
Sure Superman was considerably old, but so was Batman. And Superman's genes make the effects of aging much more slower. Forgetting the fact that to his last day he'll be powered by a source that will go on forever.
You know what I find hilarious? It's that Superman can 'travel across galaxies at light speed' but can't dodge a Kryptonite bullet.
It's like you don't listen to anything I say. DID YOU NOT HEAR ME WHEN I SAID HE HAD JUST BEEN NUKED BY A FUCKING ENVIRONMENTAL DESTROYER AND THEN TAKEN ON BY A SHITTY IRON MAN AND SHOOT IN THE FACE SO WHEN YOU ARE WEAKENED LIKE THAT YOU BET YOUR ASS YOUR NOSE IS GONNA BLEED. AND BATMAN STILL ENDED LOSING AT THE END OF THE FIGHT SO STOP ACTING LIKE HE DOMINATED THE WHOLE FIGHT BECAUSE ANYONE WITH EVEN ONE BIT OF COMMON SENSE KNOWS THAT BATMAN WOULD BE DESTROYED BY SUPES. But yknow what? Forget about it because you're to dense to understand that batman would lose to Superman. Even my three year old nephew knows that Superman would win. He said in these exact words "Batman is just a dude in a suit". Just Google Superman if you need to because Superman has every ability he needs to beat batman. I'm done
I don't listen to ANYTHING you say? Quite frankly you NEVER mentioned to me that Superman had been nuked! I saw it in a reply to someone else, so just calm the fuck down.
If what nuked him was an 'environmental destroy', than I can imagine it expanded a considerable range beyond him. And yet Batman was fine. But as usual, you fanboys will defend a guy who can 'lift planets and cross galaxies at light speed' by whatever excuse you have, instead of letting the Man of Steel use his 'metal'.
Last time I check Batman won! Anyone with a shred of common sense would understand that their victory, comically, would depend on the writer. Why? Because the information regarding Superman is constantly inconsistent. In fact, the information on all of them is. Superman's just seems more. This why we have Superman in one comic book struggling to lift the Daily Planet's 'orb' and Nightwing lifting a boulder of the same size in another.
I'm finished here. Your complete worship of Superman has brainwashed you to the point you believe whatever you read in the comic books, even though I never seen him fly at lightspeed.
Frankly, I don't give a fuck what your 3 year old cousin has to say about their battles, especially when the only thing he has to say about Bat's is 'he's just a dude in a suit'. Why did you mention it anyway? Is the fact that he's 3? Supposed to mean anything? I would have said that to at that age. But people mature and grow out of their folly. And I did, to.
I have Googled Superman, several times. However, knowing the fanboy you are, it's the only thing you have to, concerning comic book characters. You should Google Batman! You'd be surprised.
I know plenty about batman in fact he used to be my favorite superhero. Back then I swore and swore and swore that batman won against any combatant until I "grew out of my folly"and realized that Superman could beat practically anyone he fought because he has no limits. Or better yet I'll give you a situation. Completely forget about bats and supes. If a ninja were to fight an alien that could perform feats like fly and move at Super speed and crush coal into diamonds with pure strength and sour lasers out of his eyes and freeze people into place with a simple breath, who would win using your brain logically. And once again the writers decide how the fight goes. Meaning the feat supes performed in issue such and such means absolutely nothing if the writer wants it that way
No limits? And you call yourself a fan. Superman is very limited. He's limited by our sun, he's limited by Kryptonite and he's limited by his writers. Batman, on the other hand, is only limited by his mind (and his author's, of course). In fact, Batman's whole life is a testimony to 'there are no excuses for failure' How else would a man with no superpowers become the one world's finest, leader of the Justice League and one of the most relevant characters in all of history!
I agree, if a ninja were to fight an alien with said powers he would definitely lose. But that is not the case we have here. Batman is more than just some ninja (which was more than enough to beat Wonderwoman), he's trained in virtually 300 martial arts. He has an arsenal of weapons he can use against Superman, excluding Kryptonite, techniques to disarm him, etc and contingency plans for everything. Plus, he was the one who trained Superman to begin with. Under estimation of him might be part of the reasons why he's beat Superman so many times.
Look, while the writers are responsible for making him looking weak they're equally responsible for making him 'almighty'. This just goes to show he has bad authors, which is a well known truth. But what I'm getting at is that the idea that Superman can beat him has been constructed by his over exaggerated powers in comic books. We know Superman has superspeed, but being able to move at lightspeed is an ability that's extremely questionable. Especially since his authors write his stories according to how they want it to end.
Technology doesn't mean sit when I'm flying at you with the force of a million comets before you can even blink an eye. Batmans trained in 270 martial arts and none of them helped him in hush where he broke his fist on supes while using kryptonite. And Superman's powers aren't over exaggerated because his abilities have been at this level for over 40 years. Honestly even golden age Superman could beat batman. Batman received a huge amount of attention so DC comics focused on making batman as cool as possible because we all know that batman had been a campy loser for a good part of his career. I can't really argue with your last point though. And the idea of batman ever being able to beat Superman was caused by this boat in popularity you've got to admit.
I agree, it wouldn't if you could do that. But you can't. And neither can Superman. And even if he could, it's not like he'll be able to do
that every battle they're in.
Superman is constantly over exaggerated! And don't give me shit like 'his powers have been at this level for 40 years', he wasn't at that level in TDKR, the Justice League series and many other media productions. And I bet if I walked into a comic book store right now, I'd be able to pick another example at random.
Batman has always been cool. And not long after his creation in the silver age did he sales fly 'through the roof'! He's always had the people's attention because he is cool! I know Bats history. Sure, I know Batman was campy part of his career, Superman still is! But it was short period, and if I remember correctly, it happened for a very good reason. I'll be able to admit Batman's victories aren't real when you can give me a reason why so many 'unpopular' characters have thrashed Superman without needing/having a 'bloat in popularity'.
Batman in armor enchanted by his pal Zatanna would school Superman so hard it would get silly. Have you ever seen Superman fight Shazam? It's not even a contest. Superman is not as invulnerable as a lot of people (the non-comic book reading crowd) actually have come to believe. Wow, would he ever be boring if he was so super he could never lose.
Magic > Kryptonite > Superman
So you're saying Batman with the help of someone else like Green Arrow in TDKR? Yea, but alone? No. FYI in most fights, Superman wiped the floor with Shazam.
Actually Superman has learned how to counter spells and shazam is nowhere near Superman's level in terms of strength speed or durability. Magic only gave him a slight edge and he still lay. Batman sucks at his job when you think about it. He's created 76%of his villains. And plus it's not like he hasn't overcome his weaknesses before. He's vaporized kryptonitebefore and flown through a red sun
So what Superman can beat Shazam? He's like what, 12? You know who really sucks at a job Superman. His arch nemesis is a billionaire how's absolutely anonymous to anyone.
Sure, you may say Batman created a lot of his villains, but he genuinely cares about them, and would never go beyond the law to find justice (besides being a vigilante, of course). Superman, of course, would and often has. And if not for the fact that Superman doesn't have many villains, he would be doing worse than Bats at controlling them. He was the reason, after all, Earth was invaded. Read the Action Comics, Superman sucks and needs to learn A LOT from Batman.
12 or otherwise Shazam has the power and wisdom of gods and supes cares more about his villains and criminals more than batman. In fact, batman has once set on fire a group of criminals whilst fucking black canary in all star batman and robin. And I don't know where you heard that Superman controls his villains. And it was the abundance of heroes of Earth that triggered invasions not Superman. Also batman has stated that Superman is better at his job than he is
Made no sense? Man you are so fucking moronic. Are you going to so blatantly ignore the fact that Batman beat his ass in TDKR. I don't care how much power you say Supes was holding back, (which often tends to be over exaggerated). Superman gave him his all! Stop saying that just because Superman is superstrong of fast and he held back that it's only logical reason Batman won.
I mean even if he was actually holding back the least he could do was defend himself against every damn blow! Even the fact that at that point he was significantly older would be a better excuse than 'he's almighty'.
Maybe you didn't understand my comment. I mean common' fucking read! I said that (with his said power) Superman (scientifically) would be able to not just punch his enemies, but 'disintegrate them on an atomic level', which would also kill him! Note that this is all assuming the things in the comics were real and adhered to our physical laws, not a writer's imagination. As for a reason why Superman wouldn't do that to him, umm, how 'bout emotional weakness? Superman definitely isn't as willing as Batman is to go a certain distance as Batman. In simple words, he's too humane, and to the point that it's a weakness. Batman will do whatever it takes. And this isn't just evident in what he says but his contingency plans and the way Superman trusts him. What?! Supes cares more about his villains than Batman? It is a known fact that Batman often visits/ drops off his villains at the hospital, asylum or even prison when needed. Forget he once set a group of criminals on fire
Sure Shazam has the power and wisdom of gods, but he's still only twelve. So don't wear it as a medal of honor that Superman has beat him. Now let's compare him to Black Adam. Who does he do?
What?! Superman cares more about his villains than Batman? You're fucking kidding me. It is a well known fact that Bats drops off/ visits his villains in the hospital, at a cell or asylum. He's constantly saving the man who is trying to hunt him down, Commissioner Gordon, and wouldn't even let a fly harm him, even at his expense.
And you're comparing that to Superman? Superman who calls Lex Luthor an 'insane man' (or whatever he says), though Batman wouldn't about Joker, (even though we all know he actually is) and offered to help him.
I know Earth has been invaded for many reasons, but never have I heard it was because there are a lot of people. In Man of Steel, Zod was drawn to Earth by the Codex he was in search for and mostly likely wanted to rebuild it on Earth because he wanted vengeance. After all, he did say, 'I will rebuild Krypton on his bones.' Even in the more recent comic books the reason why Earth was successfully invaded was because Superman helped train Krypton's army. And because of him Kryptonite wasn't as effective on them (as him).
Wow, so Batman said that?! You must be so proud! What's next? Batman says that Superman could actually do way better than him with women if he tries harder? Please don't kid yourself! You'd have to be a fool to believe that someone with the powers of Superman has no more that like what? 25 villains. Is doing better than Batman. Not to mention he's Bruce Wayne, a well known billionaire and head of Wayne Enterprises. while Clark, is, well... nobody. He's so unimportant is Superman where to die, people would seldom care about him. But if Batman and Wayne were to... that would cause chaos.
Slow claps. You almost sounded smart this time. But Gordon works with batman and a good portion of supes' 25 member rogues gallery would still destroybatman and his rogues. And you shouldn't kid yourself because earlier you based your claims of batman being the best fighter on people saying he could beat them. Clark Kent isn't Superman btw the reporter Clark Kent is his guise instead of Superman being his but your pride is obviously too injured for you to admit Supermanwould beat Batman logically. And for future debates don't bring up characters' alert egos cause that sounds kinda desperate and pathetic tbh
It's good to know that you can at least admit when someone shows a sign of intelligence. I'm still waiting for you to show some.
Sure, Gordon WORKED with Batman in early books, but not anymore. If you think he does, then you need to follow up on the new Arkham series. Let me just remind you that vigilantism has never been made legal across the DC Universe, once. So while 'our dear Commissioner' might use Batman when it suits his cause, he'll quickly turn against him, (which he has) when need arises. After all, he's really the only decent cop in the city.
You say Batman wouldn't beat 'a good portion of Superman's 25 villains'. Good point. But Batman has already beat Lex Luthor, Mr.Mxyzptlk, Cyborg Superman, Toymaster, Metallo and many others. So which 'portion' are you talking about.
While I did base my claim of 'Batman being the best' on the people he's beaten, I also based it on the number of martial arts he's trained in, his physical prowess and his recognition as a formidable foe across the DC Universe. Are you sure you're not the one who doesn't listen? Besides, the number of people he's beaten is an important part to consider.
Does it really matter whether I say 'Superman is Clark Kent' or not? No one really cares! It's his aliases. It's not like someone can took on Supes role like they can Batman.
You're obviously to injured to use logic. Can you tell me whether being able to 'fly at light speed' is logical when you can't dodge a Kryptonite bullet. For future debates try to spell 'alternate' better.
I'm pretty sure you made up that bit about supes villains. Second, if we're talking about the number and skills of people batmans beaten why are you neglecting how many GALACTIC threats and worldwide threats in the form of aliens or what not. And two more things, you said you've never seen Superman fly at light speed earlier meaning you've never read a Superman comic and you're forgetting that logic is eradicated in comic books which is why Superman "can't dodge a kryptonite bullet"(even though he has before) sorry about that alternate thing btw I'm using the swipe function on my android and that's what it corrected to lol
First off, I make up nothing in these comments. Anything you think I did is because of your lack of knowledge on him. You know so little he's abilities are starting to surprise you to denial.
I was not 'ignoring' the number of global threats he averted. I just didn't bring it up 'cause that's a topic that hasn't even been brought up yet. To mention just one, Batman is the ONLY person to effectively come back from the past without disrupting the future. See, Darkseid sent him there in hopes that he would gain enough Omega energy to destroy our world. He didn't, and ended up having to save the day, AGAIN, when he returned.
Logic isn't eradicated in comic books. There are just inconsistencies. Different writer's portray him as able to do such things and that's why I say it's comic book induced stupidity that's only advantageous.
Superman learned martial arts from Krypton, this is just an assumption from Batman-baised fans that Superman can't fight and just uses strength for everything. BTW the video showed that it ended in a tie (of course, don't wanna upset anybody).
Maybe you haven't read one of my comments about that. I never said Superman can't fight. I just said Batman is the best. Heck I even said he learnt two from Krypton, Batman and Wonderwoman also trained him.
If it was Donner's Superman, Snyder's Batman or hell, even Nolan's Batman would win with their hands tied behind their backs and still make it home for corn flakes.
However, with this being Snyder's Superman (my personal favorite). Batman is in for the fight of his life!
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is an experience that will create a lasting memory, something that you tell your grandchildren about. I'm so excited to see it and thanks to very kind and helpful Batman fans , I might live that experience with the girl of my dreams! She is the one with glasses in the end of the second row.Look at her, she has the most beautiful inner beauty and her smile brings joy to myself. She is the smartest person I know , has a very different sense of humor, and likes Pokémon. Earlier I asked for advice and tips to help me be able to talk to her and a very kind and helpful Batman fan gave me some very insightful words of wisdom. This just proves that us Batman fans are the BEST in the world!!! #BatmanFansRule
Inner beauty MAKES outer beauty. They are the same thing and her beauty is beyond amazing. My eyes can't stop looking at her. Everything she says has meaning to it. She points out the confusion between what B.C. and A.D really stand for or she talks about the Titanic and the truth behind it. Speaking of eras, I think I'll describe my life as pre-BvS and post-BvS as well. The Dark Knight-excitement was unbelievable ,but Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice will be 1000 times more excitement. Tons and tons of fans will dress up like the hero of their choice when they enter the theaters. Lex Luthor shirts will be worn. 2 years can't come here any faster. I'm so EXCITED!!!! Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice will be the BEST comic book movie ever made and definitely my most favorite movie I've ever watched! #Batman/Superman
Dude, she'll get sick of you quick if you keep glorifying her and putting up on a pedestal like this. Flattery is good, but a little can go a long way. I've only read 2 posts about her and the praise seemed completely excessive and overdone. I'm practically ready to vomit (can't imagine how she feels). Take it down a couple pegs or you'll drive her away.
Don't worry, I haven't glorified her infront of her face yet. and thanks for the heads up. you are a life saver. Take it down a couple pegs...Got it!
Thanks sir!
If she doesn't like Batman, what's the point?
Glad you found someone that makes you feel that way. Be a gentleman and treat her right and, above all, be yourself.
I am a Batman fan, why wouldn't I be myself!?! All jokes aside, thank you for those wonderful words of wisdom. Its such a pleasure to socialize with the Batman News community.
Damn dude , your experiencing something called (love)!
Speaking of love - today is my 5th year anniversary of being married.
Hope everything works out for you. ^_^
Happy anniversary batbro! Im married too & i love my wife she gets me!
Got this for my B-day
You lucky S.O.B
That's awesome!!!
Kryptonite is not the only way to temporarily incapacitate Superman. In Red Son, Batman (and Luthor) perfected the conditions to take down Superman. Building solar lamps to replicate the rays of Superman's native sun, which deprived Superman of his powers. Of course, eventually it wasn't entirely successful, but an intriguing alternative to Kryptonite.
Exactly! It's more creative than a green rock.
This also can aide Batman too.
But Superman has the super punch that came from outer space punch
And herein lies the reason why this movie was named BvS: so we could all choose sides and argue over who would win when we damn well already know that they're just going to team up in the end lol
I don't know about "know" but safe to assume.
Not everybody would agree with that one! Lol
You're right, Paul is the best! Case closed. LOL
He could do a lot but he did a lot without thinking, something Batman is pretty good at.
Batman > Superman. Accept it.
Same reason why I can't accept why Superman would beat Bats.
Batman is Batman, that's logical.
Yes!
Yeeess!
this video just made me angry. the guy that talks doesn't know sh't about bats nor supes. he's maybe seen some movies and that's it. they just wanted to grab a few views while the news are hot.
is the point of this video just being stupid? i guess it's ok for someone who doesn't know who bruce and clark are. not elaborate suits in comics? bad success rate? superman doesn't have a sidekick?
why is it posted here? i get it, no news today. but jeez man, could have posted batman eats a hotdog or something.
The video is obviously a joke at every turn.
On Round six, I'd say Superman deserved that point and win The Verge video by a hair. If anything happened to Lois, he would go nuts. It's a bad example, however she does give him that motivation he needs.
It obviously depends on the writer, but in the end it does in fact come to a tie! Unless it's a cage fight and both lack preparation, Superman wins without a doubt.
I always had this idea on how the fight should go for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. Since Kryptonite is overused & it's cheap method to take down Superman, I'm glad it didn't appear in Man of Steel. They should do the same thing for this movie and keep Kryptonite absent.
Instead of Batman building a ludicrous mech suit of tank armor, he can reverse engineer The Black Zero's atmospherics. To have an interesting fight, we can say Batman tried his best & didn't fully rebuild the ship's atmospherics (because in MOS it put Superman to sleep) however made something very similar & portable to fit in his belt. That way, the unfinished tech won't make Superman feel weak (he'd still feel perfectly fine) but it will weaken his durability/powers (possibly turn them on/off to keep Bats guessing) to the point where it's just human strength & Batman can take the hits without dying LOL.
We would finally have a close quarters (True martial arts) combat between Batman & Superman which actually makes sense in my opinion. The Bat fans would enjoy seeing Bats wail on Superman. It's better than Batman pulling out a green rock & see Superman faint. As for that unfinished alien tech that fits in his belt, it could be in the shape of Batarangs or small machines, Batman can throw them out during the fight to form a perimeter thus creating those similar yet weaker atmospherics to the ones in Zod's ship. Superman can destroy them and Batman can pull more out & recreate more perimeters. He can even use those perimeters to lead Superman into a dark building to get some of that stealth ninja action Batman does. Batman can control pain so it's ok if Superman breaks some of his bones to keep the fight interesting.
I hope Snyder's team comes up with something way better than this & stays far away from a Ironman & Superman fight.
Batman will have a metal suit ala The Dark Knight Returns. Prepare yourself.
I hope not. It wouldn't make sense if he does LOL. The Superman in MOS can crush every single metal on earth including Kryptonian metal between his fingers. In addition, if he has that ridiculous metal suit and defeats him with just that or Kryptonite then it will be the cheapest fight in cinema. You would see Marvel fanboys say "That means Superman is a puh** and Ironman can defeat him with Jarvis on autopilot #Avengers!"
It would butcher Superman like it was done in TDKReturns. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love the Batman side of the story IT'S AMAZING. I just hate they made Superman a government puppet. It should be Brain vs. Brawn(even he is smart too) instead of Brawn vs. Brawn because then it becomes your average action movie.
*and cries*
LMAO
LOL this was hilarious!
Yep, this sounds good. I want Superman to win and I believe he deserves to win but if Batman is going to win then do it by using Kryptonian tech to show that Batman can't beat Superman on his own but is smart enough to use Superman's tech against him. I would still prefer if Superman won. Or better yet, have Batman begin losing the fight and win once Wonder Woman shows up to help or something. I don't know but I just don't want Superman to be shown as a weakling who was defeated by a human. Batman has had a lot of spotlight..I think it's Superman's turn for some!
Exactly and thanks! A weak Superman that's about to faint would be boring. He has to fight for the spotlight but at the same time not kill Batman in the process by flicking his finger.
Exactly! I want a fight where both are shown as badasses.
Go home and cry, baby! Stupid alien baby!
If were speaking in terms of strength than obviously Superman but Superman's worldview would never allow him to fight Batman (meaning there is no circumstance in which superman would take down batman unless Batman is evil for some reason) However if Batman came to the conclusion that Superman was no longer needed or was a danger to the world. Than Batman would be able to stop Superman because Superman would never see it coming. Its not who would win in a fight, but could Batman defeat Superman if he needed to. The answer is clearly yes.
Just my thoughts, power isnt everything....
I agree with nearly everything you said. If Batman didn't have a choice then yes he can defeat Superman (but like @Tey said "it would be the fight of his life!").
However there's a chance Superman would see Batman coming from a planet way. But yes it is possible.
Actually I personally believe it's the opposite. If Superman ever had to be stopped then Batman would not be able to to and Injustice does a pretty good job at showing this. Two Batmans could not stop him, they had to bring in another Superman to stop him. However a "good" Superman could lose to Batman because he would hold back. Either way both characters are awesome.
EDIT: Not to mention the fact it was 2 Batmans AND a Lex Luthor.
I'm going to get a lot of hate and before I start..I love Batman but yes, I am a Superman fan. I just don't see how Batman can beat Superman. The guy is the worlds greatest detective and the most badass character ever but Superman is the "god" of all superheroes. Yes, i've read TDKR and it's an awesome novel but it portrays Batman at his best (except for age) but it portrays a barely mediocre Superman. Both characters at their best? Batman has nothing to get around Superman's speed. A lot of people say Superman is powerful but doesn't know how to fight. Okay, maybe he isn't as skilled as Batman but Superman does know how to fight. He trained in Kryptonian martial arts and he also trained with Wonder Woman. Kryptonite remains Batman's greatest weapon but this isn't Donner's Superman who collapses if he is anywhere near it. I've seen Superman destroy Kryptonite from afar with his heat vision and although some may consider this cheating...well it's just him using his abilities right? Not to mention the fact that Superman is really smart. Smarter than Bruce? Nah. Still smart enough to stay on the same page though. As far as I can see, The best Batman (TDKR except for age) barely beat a mediocre and poorly portrayed Superman. Well, I love both characters and I'm happy no matter who wins. I just don't like it when people say Superman stands no chance.
Oh and just throwing this out there...I honestly believe Wonder Woman can kick both their asses. :P
Very true. Hey check out my comment below it's an idea to your second sentence on how Batman can survive the fight without Kryptonite.
Batman is my favorite fictional character by a runaway mile... And you are absolutely right.
You know, I want to believe Superman would win because it seems like the obvious answer. But when you think about it, if you're trying to be as realistic as possible, he probably wouldn't, because Superman is trusting and will always take the high road. Batman has spent ages working out ways to kill Superman if he has to. I mean, that's really the only reason he won in DKR. He had planned for it, Superman hadn't, and Batman had to literally attack him with enough electricity to light the entire city before Superman was even willing to punch back. It's kinda like how small guerrilla forces can repel enormous, technologically advanced armies, like the Apache, Vietcong or Taliban against the US.
Yea I always believed that if Batman wins..it's because Superman is holding back. Superman will hold back every time because he wouldn't hurt Bruce. However, if this was an evil Superman like Injustice...I doubt Batman would last in the fight because Superman would also prepare and he would go for the kill.
Couple things here:
I think Kent is always mindful about when & how to use his powers; ultimately holding back quite often
Batman doesn't have the moral high ground Kent does; he even paid Mirror Master to do a job for him
Batman is a master tactician
Factoring these into consideration; Batman could walk away the victor. Kent has the powers (I hate this notion he's a god), but any good tactician knows you turn your enemies strengths into a weakness.
Can Batman physically combat Kent's speed? No. Could he place Kent in a scenario where using the speed has unfavorable repercussions? Absolutely. Same with any of Kent's powers.
Granted, you could argue that Kent would see any of these traps from miles away, but do you know what made Houdini so successful? His mastering of misdirection. Batman is a master as well.
My answer is pretty much the same as below. I agree, If Superman holds back then Batman definitely has a chance of winning but if Superman doesn't hold back then I don't see how Batman can win. As you said though, Clark will pretty much hold back every single time and he will be preoccupied with other thins rather than be focused on Bruce the entire time. Why? well it's pretty simple. (and no offence to Batman fans) Unless Superman is truly evil then he won't actually try to win the fight because he knows that Batman is just paranoid. He will most likely receive 1000 attacks from Batman before he even decides to start attacking him.
Then at that point, wouldn't Kent cease to be "Superman" & be Ultraman?
How do you mean "paranoid"? I've never seen/read anything that comes close to paranoia.
No, I don't mean Ultraman. He is from Earth 2. I mean like in Injustice where Superman BECOMES evil. And...
Paranoia: Suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification.
Batman has been depicted as a paranoid person several times. One example is Justice League: Doom. He has plan to take out the entire Justice League. Some people call it preparation..and it is. However, it's also paranoia because he doesn't trust the Justice League even though they have not done anything wrong. Superman is aware of this and even encourages Batman to have a plan to take him out if he gets out of control but that doesn't mean Batman isn't paranoid. The psychological trauma he suffered due to the loss of his parents has made him into a person who doesn't trust anyone but Alfred. His suspicion isn't justified because the Justice League had not done anything even remotely close to dangerous let alone be seen as a threat, yet he still had plans to take them out.
I was just referencing how if Kent lost his moral compass, he'd essentially be Ultraman. I'll have to take your word about Injustice's Kent; I've never played the game.
I've been arguing this misconception about Batman for a decade; its preparation, not paranoia. I'd skip Doom & read the story it's based upon: "Tower of Babel." If you get the trade, there's a flashback epilogue.
Those countermeasures were to incapacitate the League, not kill. When Kent inquired about it, Batman's reasoning included mind control, possessions, body swaps, & going rogue. Is the time to plan how to incapacitate Kent when he's being controlled by Poison Ivy or beforehand?
In my experience, most people who label Batman "paranoid" live in this bubble & don't think they could be a victim. Staying 2 & 3 steps ahead of everyone is being prepared. I have savings accounts, life insurance, health insurance, auto insurance, & homeowners insurance. Its to be prepared, not because I'm paranoid about something happening.
The time to make sure you have batteries for your flashlights (though glo-sticks are actually better to keep on hand), bottled water, & food ISN'T when they are call for a snowstorm/ thunderstorm. Being prepared meanings keeping that stuff on hand well beforehand.
Living in Manhattan & keeping an inflatable raft stored in the event there's a mass evacuation isn't paranoia...its being prepared & 3 steps ahead.
Injustice Superman is Superman gone wrong because Lois's death...he isn't Ultraman. Is there a difference? OF COURSE. Ultraman is cocky and reckless. Injustice Superman is smart, he knows everything about the Justice League heroes and he is ruthless. Which is why half of the Justice League, 2 Batmans and a Lex Luthor couldn't stop him...they had to bring in the "good" Superman to stop him.
Perfect examples. However, as you said, that's just being prepared. Batman is prepared, but he also doesn't trust the Justice League and that is paranoia. I've read "Tower of Babel" and several other comics and I've lost track of how many times Batman has said " I don't trust so and so". That my friend, is paranoia. The one and only person he trusts is Alfred. However, you're getting all defensive about it as if I was saying it's a bad thing..it's not. That's why he is a master tactician. His paranoia causes him to prepare for EVERYTHING.
Since you threw out there Doom, I didn't think you read Tower of Babel (which is head & shoulders above Doom.)
He doesn't trust the Robins? He doesn't trust Gordon? You think he really doesn't trust Kent?
'Paranoia' is what people who don't understand what self-awareness is. It's really staying 2-3 steps ahead of everyone. I am very self-aware. Its how I know when things are normal & when they aren't.
Its about taking everything I've learned from the Boy Scouts, to experiences, to what my career entails. I get "defensive" because people who say Batman is paranoid are saying the same about me...and once you've become self-aware you'll know there's no need to be 'paranoid.'
Oh, and as I said, I'll have to take your word on that Injustice thing.
I worked as a security guard for years. Trust me, I know the difference between self awareness and paranoia. Oh and..
" I get "defensive" because people who say Batman is paranoid are saying the same about me...and once you've become self-aware you'll know there's no need to be 'paranoid.'" ... So you're the GOD DAMN Batman now?!(<- That was a joke) No but seriously, you're not Batman. You're self aware of everyday things. Batman isn't paranoid because he has car insurance.. he is paranoid because he swears the Justice League will one day get out of hand. Do you think Superman, Wonder Woman and other Justice League members aren't self aware? They are but they don't go around planning everyone's demise. Seriously? That's all Batman does when he isn't busy fighting crime? Planning how to take down every single person he knows "in case" they need to be stopped? That's definitely paranoia. Batman is paranoid and I shall stand by my point. You clearly won't change your view so lets just leave it as is.
He's also created plans to unite Gotham's mobs & have a puppet handle them for him. Its his craft, Batman spends downtime working on his craft. The rest of the League hasn't really been looking at the superheroing as a way of life. They just aren't ones to plan steps ahead.
I wasn't referencing having insurance. More the contingency plans, supply stashes scattered in various locations, hidden weapon concealed throughout my house, & the data I've accumulated over the years on all those closest to me.
I've been doing this since 1997 (years before Tower of Babel). So, no I'm under no impression I'm a fictitious character. I'm not paranoid because I know I'm already steps ahead of those who could be any risk.
Alas, this is why I've never gotten very far in this discussion over the years.
No offence, but the reason you haven't gotten far over the years is because your reasoning and argumentation isn't the best. 85% of your argument is about yourself and why YOU'RE not paranoid when we are talking about Batman. Hence the reason I don't think we should continue this debate. Good talk though. It's nice having an actual discussion where the answers aren't childish and stupid!
Actually, I only brought myself into the conversation because you don't know me. The people I normally converse about this know enough about me to understand how I see things.
I always enjoy good conversations. And I agree, its enhanced when the answers are childish & stupid.
M
As much as l LOVE Batman, Superman would win.
It's a problem for Snyder. He basically has 3 options:
(1) Batman wins. Bad because everyone will accuse Snyder of going with the flow, seeing how Batman is the most popular hero today.
(2) Superman wins. Bad because its so obvious. Batman himself said in many incarnations that in a fair fight he doesn't stand a chance. And I don't count the DKR.
(3) Tie. Also bad because many will consider it an unsatisfactory cop-out.
Thus, Snyder needs to find a way to take one of these and make it good.
EDITED
I would go with option #2 because it makes sense. However to make it exciting and not disappointing for the fans they could have the best fight in cinema. Finally, have both Batman & Superman on the brink of death with Superman winning (metaphorically?) with Batman teaching Superman a life lesson.
Or maybe just don't have them fight because it's a completely unnecessary cliche?
Just saying, this is actually an option. Or at least it was before they decided to name it Batman v Superman without having finished the screenplay.
Actually, I would say they could pull off a pretty good fight scene and resulting dramatic scene of Superman basically beating the hell out of Batman, holding off enough not to kill him. Batman gets many good shots in, with gadgets/wit/etc., showing off all of his skills a-la Justice League: War. But they don't put Superman down for the count. Batman finally can hardly stand after exhaustion and being thoroughly worked over by Superman, but still won't quit, Superman understanding his will to fight, gaining respect for Batman, even though he's probably been hunting him throughout the movie for what happened in MoS. I don't know though. Maybe that would make Snyder's Batman seem too weak?
If batman could hold of any superman in at least two fight scenes, i would think Batman is badass. Ignorrant jackasses would complain over it, but true fans would say that batman put a great fight for a mortal against a super mortal.
so...
interesting...
Whoo it worked! http://www.moregrit.co.uk/w...
I think Batman, some way, can beat Superman. But if Superman were to win, he would have to kill Batman because Batman wouldn't give up. So, if he kills Batman, he still loses; because he killed the Batman and he will be despised for a long time.
Slow news day, huh, Chris? <3
P.S. Batman would win. Duh.
Checkout this "logical" sketch.
It includes Ironman, but... still works.
Clever! I just don't understand what is the second second variable in the second equation.
the emp gun
Superman knows martial arts in the comics, but in this case (similar to TDK's skill set) is a doosh.
EMPs don't do anything to Ironman. But let's ignore that for now (and also that Superman knows Kryptonian fighting style(s) but whatever).
You're kidding right?
If not.... Elaborate.
Go read some Iron Man comics, unless you're just a DC guy then that makes sense why you wouldn't know. I'll give you one thing though, Superman doesn't know Kryptonian fighting in the New 52 (or so I've heard).
Who would win? Well, it depends! Batman vs. Superman is about a man vs. a GOD, David vs. Goliath, mind vs. muscle. Under certain circumstances, a man can do the "seemingly" impossible. That's the intrigue of this debate.
I always hated Kent being seen & labeled 'a god.' I'm not religious by ANY means (I actually have an issue with organized religion), but isn't "god" flawless & without weakness? Kent was raised human, so he suffers at least the psychological flaws of man. He's got weaknesses too.
True. The "God" label is simply because Superman's overpowered. His origin and purpose for being sent to Earth, is similar to that of Jesus Christ. By the way, organized religion, is pretty great.
Its a way to manipulate the religious faith people have, but I digress...
Isn't his origins more like Moses?
Actually, yes. And you say you're NOT religious? LOL
Doesn't mean I haven't heard the collection of stories growing up.
This video was really lame.
I like his message at the end! That's what we ultimately want to see! The World's Finest!
This fight isn't about physical strength or psychological strength it's about which ethic model you perceive as the right one. This is the interesting part in the Snyder universe because in his universe the ethic role that Batman usually have has been overtaken by Superman, the consequent ethic model or the utilitarian, which was proven by him breaking Zod's neck in Man of Steel. Usually, in the comics with Frank Miller in mind, the deontological ethic model is defended by Superman which is in contrast to the utilitarian that Snyders Superman portrayed. Batman is ethically deontological by his own standards, thereby the narcissistic traits in Frank Millers interpretation of Batman which Snyder by the looks of it seems to follow. That's why this movie will be the most interesting super-hero movie yet. Sorry for the somewhat flawed English, not sure if the terms are correct, it's my second language
Batman ! if you give him two hours to Prep up before the fight ! Bats would find a way two beat him !
Let's get ready to rumble!!!
Amazing! i just made that my desktop background
Ok in a fair fight without Batman using Kryptonite Superman would win but the thing is Batman isin't dum he's gonna have a plan to use Krptonite to win the fight soo yeah Batman wins!
Well, I'd say Kent would be the only one fighting fair. Batman is always a dirty fighter. Would using similar methods like he used in Hush (using Kent's enhanced abilities against him) be fighting fair?
The reason I hate The Verge. They're stupid.
Supes would win as long as there are no kryptonites involved.
So knowing Kent's weakness, Batman would just be "screw it, I'll just use my fists"?! That's very...un-Batman-like.
Nobody would "really" win the fight because these characters aren't real.
Booo! Go back to your thinking chair right now, you thunder stealer! LOL
jk, jk
Im so excited! Imagine if bvs takes place 3 years after mos (which is in real time between movies) & metropolis is being rebuilt & someone gives a speech about how hard it has been for them for the past 3 years in order to get here & all the fanboys/girls in the cinema are like YES IT WAS A DIFFICULT 3 YEARS OUR BODY IS READY LOL
i choose to refer to The Dark Knight Returns: Batman kicks the living shit out of supes just cuz he can. brains over brawn anyday
If there is going to be an fightscene i would love it to be like the batman v bane fight scene. No music no cgi , just bats vs sups both giving everything that they can screaming exhausting. And at the end when they both realise they wont give up, they collide for the worlds finest. Sorry if my english is bad
I hope not.
That scene was horrible.
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