'Justice League' actor says Joss Whedon reshoots will "lighten up the film"

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August 10, 2017

IGN spoke to Joe Morton today, who plays Cyborg's dad/"inventor" Dr. Silas Stone in Justice League. Morton confirmed that he worked on the reshoots with director Joss Whedon, and revealed that they changed the tone of Ray Fisher's character, Cyborg. He also said that Warner Bros. wanted to "lighten up the film" with the reshoots because they felt it was too dark.

Check out an excerpt from the IGN interview below:

IGN: Did you work on the Joss Whedon portion of filming that's been going on or were you strictly on the Zack Snyder portion of the shoot?
Joe Morton: No, I did some reshoots with Joss.
IGN: Can you say what's different? Is there's any difference in tone?
Morton: Well, the stuff that I had to do were just really small little bits and pieces, nothing necessarily having to do with tone. I know that with Ray [Fisher], the young man who plays [Cyborg], there were some adjustments that they made in terms of the tone of that character. I think what I heard was that there was a need from the studio to lighten up the film in a way, that the film felt too dark. I don't know what that meant in terms of how it actually got translated in terms of the reshoots but that's what I heard. That's what I thought some of the reshoots were about.

What do you make of Morton's comments about alterting the tone of Justice League with the reshoots? Leave your thoughts in the comments section!

SOURCE: IGN

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313 comments

Matches Malone
August 10, 2017
I personally see this as a positive.
1. ThisBitterEarth
  August 11, 2017
  Knowing the priorities of film studies, I see this as necessarily negative.
FastestKnight
August 10, 2017
https://68.media.tumblr.com...
1. residentgrigo
  August 10, 2017
  Indeed. Cuz you know, we all saw the rough cut and gained perfect insight into the process.
  http://media.vanityfair.com...
Saber Khai
August 10, 2017
I was afraid of this. I'm sorry, it wasn't really the TONE of the film's that was an issue, it was the haphazard story and egregious mischaracterization of Superman that was the issue. If they want to go dark, GO DARK. They have the characters for it in Batman and Aquaman. They need to stop chasing after Marvel and find their own groove.
1. shanefrati
  August 10, 2017
  Exactly Saber. Warner Bros. is so reactionary, insecure and unsure of themselves that they move whichever way they "think" the wind is blowing. Take this whole push to frame the synopsis to be more Wonder Woman centric. In doing so they will lose the essence of what the Justice league is and the at the characters personalities play off one another.
  1. Si 85
    August 11, 2017
    That was on a BARBIE DOLL box with a Wonder Woman doll in it, of course it's describing the film from her POV. Stop embarrassing yourself by misquoting and presenting 'facts' out of context.
    1. shanefrati
      August 11, 2017
      Yes Si I am aware that the synopsis was off of a toy box but everything you hear coming out of the rumor mill is how desperate Warner is to ride this Wonder Woman wave and given their history with this universe so far, it is perfectly reasonable to believe they are whispering in Whedon's ears "more Wonder Woman" "more Wonder Woman" and ultimately if their pressure wins the day it will come across as forced ala suicide squad.
  2. Talia
    August 11, 2017
    As much as I liked MoS and BvS, I don't think Superman will survive the fan-hate if he comes back from the dead as an Injustice-type Superman. I get the feeling Joss Whedon will know what to do to make him more likeable. Same goes for Cyborg, if he's a little too void of personality, the tendency is for him to fade into the background. He's not that popular of a character to begin with. But the only way for the JL to be thoroughly successful is for ALL its characters to stand out on their own, not just be carried on the backs of Batman and Wonder Woman.
    1. shanefrati
      August 11, 2017
      Absolutely agree with all your points Talia.
    2. DRush76
      September 3, 2017
      I get the feeling Joss Whedon will know what to do to make him more likeable.
      More likeable? Fuck that shit! Superman has been likeable in his last two films. Whenever I come across comments like this, I want to throw up.
2. Shunsui
  August 11, 2017
  https://img.buzzfeed.com/bu...
3. Schuyler Finley
  August 11, 2017
  ..............People want the DCEU to lighten up because MoS and BvS were so dark. And mischaracterization of Superman? I didn't have to read the comics to know that Superman has thought of hanging the cape up at times. All it took was for me look at freaking Instagram of comics that have Superman contemplate his influence int he world. When WB tried to lighten the films up by making SS and WW, people accused them of being reactionary.
4. X-Planet
  August 11, 2017
  I agree about the stories being haphazard. Any kind of tone can work, but it has to be done well. And like or hate Marvel, they have a plan and are executing it.
  1. Izzy Sandoval
    August 11, 2017
    Marvel does have a plan, and they care not for the haters, regardless of how predictable their movies are. I've grown so bored waiting for Thanos that I lost any interest whatsoever in Infinity Wars. But they are reactionary in a way. Look at the trailers for the new Thor movie. They are clearly trying to capitalize on the tone and retro feel of Guardians of the Galaxy. I'm sure Thor: Ragnarok underwent some changes to make it lighter.
    1. X-Planet
      August 11, 2017
      Blah. Blah. Have you seen any of Taika Waititi's movies? (Answer: No.)
      The aesthetic and vibe are all his, only with a huge budget now. He grew up in the eighties so that's his natural lane. The movie will be great, and unique from GotG. Not like Suicide Squad, which aped GotG marketing, but delivered a lousy product.
      1. Izzy Sandoval
        August 11, 2017
        Answer: Yes, actually. Oh, you must've thought you were the only person on the planet who watched "Boy." Your assumption is invalid.
5. Blockhead Jr.
  August 11, 2017
  Well the movie was already dark and lightened. I think he means in regard to Cyborg smiling and having some energy instead of playing him cold and emotionless. He's both to me. A juggle of positivity and utter tragedy.
6. Daniel925
  August 12, 2017
  Finally! Someone gets my point.
  ZS tone wasn't the problem.
Mark
August 10, 2017
Nothing stays good in this world. :(
1. Izzy Sandoval
  August 11, 2017
  I see what you did there.
Cocaine Cowboy
August 10, 2017
"Well, the stuff that I had to do were just really small little bits and pieces, nothing necessarily having to do with tone. I know that with Ray [Fisher], the young man who plays Victor, there were some
adjustments that they made in terms of the tone of that character. I think what I heard was that there was a need from the studio to lighten up the film in a way, that the film felt too dark. I don’t know what
that meant in terms of how it actually got translated in terms of the reshoots but that’s what I heard. That’s what I thought some of the reshoots were about."
https://media.giphy.com/med...
IamTheOneWhoKnocks
August 10, 2017
In other words, they are "Whedoning" the "Snyderness". If they are going the tone of WW, great, if they are go the route of MCU, terrible. I am really thinking the latter given the director, hope I am wrong.
1. Talia
  August 11, 2017
  As much as Whedon is responsible for a lot of the tone of the MCU, he also gave us Buffy and Angel, which I feel is more relevant to the current tone of the DCEU, so let's hope he brings that instead.
  1. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
    August 11, 2017
    Fair enough, this will be interesting to say the least.
2. Master Bruce
  August 11, 2017
  If it's going in WW way then it's great..But what about suicide squad s way?
  1. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
    August 11, 2017
    If it goes SS way, I will not watch another DCEU movie again.
Alan Conn
August 10, 2017
Ugh
The End...I Am.
August 10, 2017
Quoi? Anyway, I love the Comic Con trailer, which I found better than the first. Don't change that tone. Plus, isn't this exactly how Dawn of Justice went? Except, with the script? And i think they're making Borg a bit of a jokester to go with Flash.
Dan-El
August 10, 2017
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8...
andrew
August 10, 2017
I think it's because cyborg was pretty depressed originally - upset with his powers and neglectful to help out. The issue is that they're using Cyborg/Flash relationship to replace the very funny and light hearted Flash/GL relationship. But that doesn't work if they aren't both more relaxed
Seb
August 10, 2017
Don't care about the tone either way, but what I do care about is WB's utter lack of insight as to comprehend the fact that whether or not the film has a dark tone, will have nothing to do with the quality of the final product. BvS didn't fail "because it was dark" as WB so naively believes. It failed because of atrocious editing and pacing. Bad characterizations and casting. An overstuffed and muddled plot.
Tone literally had nothing to do with it.
If WB thinks they are improving JL by merely making it a more lighthearted film, then these reshoots are worth nothing and they honestly shouldn't bother wasting millions in the name of something so utterly irrelevant.
1. ken
  August 10, 2017
  I don't get what so hard for people to understand that multi billion corporations will never come forward and bluntly admit their exact fuck ups that's just not how business work.
  The Dark Tone may have not been the problem in yours eyes but that was the narrative and the feeling shared the GP. WB won't come forward and say the direction was shittty the characterization was shitty the writing was shitty. They will come forward and take on the narrative which is the tone while taking care of the actual array problems behind the scenes. Don't except a studio to come out and give a cheat sheet of everything wrong with their franchise.
  1. Seb
    August 10, 2017
    That literally makes less than zero sense. You're basically saying WB is pretending to fix the problem by shifting all their focus unto imaginary issues, so they can go about their day and deny they royally fucked up in so many other areas. Just think about that for a moment. Do you really think WB would spend millions of dollars on something they know won't fix the movie or make it even slightly better, just so they could pretend to care about criticism and not admit their other mistakes? It would be in their best interest - financial and critical - to actually admit what they REALLY did wrong, instead of pretending that "the tone" was the biggest issue. And to be completely honest here... still to this day I have seen more people assert that audiences complained about the tone, than actual audience members complaining about the dark tone. I've actually never seen anyone argue the movie was bad "mainly because of the tone". I'm not kidding here, I've never seen anyone say that.
    1. Schuyler Finley
      August 10, 2017
      Because the tone wasn't the sole issue. It was, however, a big issue for audiences and critics.
      1. Seb
        August 10, 2017
        bull. shit.
      2. Schuyler Finley
        August 10, 2017
        Seb, we've had this conversation before. Just check RT, YouTube videos, etc. One of the big issues people had with the film was the tone itself. Hell, I read a review from one critic who was reviewing X-Men Age of Apocalypse, and she basically said that the film had "fun" factor unlike BvS.
      3. Seb
        August 10, 2017
        Exactly. And I did check RT, hundreds of reviews. And not one of them said ever that the tone was the biggest issue. Sure, some of them may criticize the film for having no levity, but that's not even remotely the same as saying the biggest issue was the dark tone. I have never seen anyone use those exact words. I'm checking RT again right now... I don't see any of the things you keep saying over and over again. It didn't happen.
      4. Schuyler Finley
        August 10, 2017
        Seb, I said ONE of the big issues that had was the tone. I never said the tone was the sole issue.
        Why do you think people say that TDK and Logan handled their dark tones better than BvS?
      5. Seb
        August 10, 2017
        Even that is not true. I'm not kidding. They never used the words "dark tone".
        People like you simply mistake "nihilistic" for "dark" and for some odd reason you think a dark tone and fun/joy are mutually exclusive.
        TDK Trilogy was dark... I would argue darker than BvS. But it wasn't devoid of joy or levity. Neither was it nihilistic of any sort.
      6. ken
        August 10, 2017
        TDK movies were also masterfully directed movies. The tone whether it's dark or fun only becomes a problem when the movie is so weak all you're left with is a tone that feels forced on it.
      7. Seb
        August 10, 2017
        How does that refute the argument? "Dark tone is the biggest problem!! Well yeah, except for every time it worked perfectly.. those don't count... because they were good movies". Well, duh. Need I remind you the superhero genre was reinvented precisely BECAUSE of DC's dark tone?
      8. ken
        August 10, 2017
        Have a good night Seb
      9. Schuyler Finley
        August 10, 2017
        Seb, all I have to ask is: were you on this website during BvS' release? I'm not making anything up. I remembered the comments. I remembered the videos. I remembered the reviews. I'm not assuming that you're lying. I'm just baffled that you missed the very vocal crowd who claimed that the film was too dark.
      10. Seb
        August 10, 2017
        I've been on this website long before that and I have NEVER seen anything like it. I'm still going through the rotten RT reviews, and I have yet to come across anything close to what you're claiming has happened.
      11. Seb
        August 10, 2017
        Still looking through RT (rotten) reviews... and if there's anything I can take away from it, it's that most people thought the movie was empty, "boring" (is a word that was used often), and had no real depth in terms of plot and characters, disjointed and overstuffed. Yes they mention the bleak tone once in a while. But again, that doesn't necessarily equate to "dark tone".
        As for YT reviews... I've not seen all of them. But concerning the big names like Jeremy Jahns, Collider, Chris Stuckmann, etc. I'm pretty sure that none of them even so much as mentioned the tone.
      12. Schuyler Finley
        August 10, 2017
        So what does equate to a dark tone then?
      13. Seb
        August 10, 2017
        A movie like Dark Knight which is serious in nature and features themes or plot points that lighthearted movies wouldn't use. Yes, BvS is a "dark" movie. It is also a joyless, nihilistic and dreary movie, unlike BB, TDK or TDKR.
        Again, even though TDK was darker than BvS, it wasn't joyless.
      14. Schuyler Finley
        August 10, 2017
        I honestly don't recall any joy from the TDK. I'm not saying that it was bad, but I cannot much levity from he film, especially during the third act.
      15. mr nobody
        August 11, 2017
        I think a lot of the Joker scenes gave levity to TDK which is exactly what the Joker is supposed to do btw, something we have yet to see in this DCEU
      16. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        .........so slamming a guy face -first onto a pencil and slashing another guy's mouth brought levity into the film?
      17. mr nobody
        August 11, 2017
        I never said those specific scenes, homie, just said a lot of them. And even while he was doing a lot of crazy/dark stuff he brought levity and humor to those moments. Great writing and even better acting. But YES, I did laugh a lot at the "magic trick" and brought levity to a tense moment
      18. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        Ledger's Joker cared little about jokes.
      19. mr nobody
        August 11, 2017
        He didn't have to tell jokes, he just was funny. Period
      20. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        But the only things he did were make very few quips and then dress up as a nurse. Other than thst, he was trying to kill someone in every scene he was in.
      21. mr nobody
        August 11, 2017
        He did, that's what the Joker does. He kills people and is charming doing it
      22. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        Ledger was anything but charming about it.
      23. mr nobody
        August 11, 2017
        ppfffftt...
      24. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        I found him to be intimidating and clever. Charming never crossed my mind.
      25. mr nobody
        August 11, 2017
        I found the whole nurse scene and the explosion at the end quite charming and funny. He was just like a little kid to me lol. But I get where you are coming from. He was quite scary too. I mean he was the Joker. Everything at the same time
      26. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        Again, you confuse joy with humor. It's not like that. TDK may have been dark, but it wasn't nihilistic or bleak.
      27. Adam Gallacher
        August 11, 2017
        Not read the comments in a little while but lo and behold Seb is here going off his nut as per.
      28. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        Lol, wrong comment you fool.
      29. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        I didn't say that it was humorless. It felt joyless because it was one bad thing after another as the film progressed. The film had some humorous moments, but overall it didn't feel joyful even when I had watched it as a teenager. It felt depressing as hell.
      30. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        If that is true, explain to me why critics loved that movie while they despised BvS for the exact same reason.
      31. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        I don't know.
      32. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        Haha, at least you're honest :p
        It's because there's a difference between how Nolan executed the dark tone and how Snyder did. That's why I said I don't care about the tone either way. It's the execution that matters. I do actually prefer a darker tone, but give me a good movie first and a good tone second is what I'm saying.
      33. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        Or that people felt that the tone didn't fit the characters in the story, even though that a lot of the "mischaracterization" and dark themes have occurred in the comics with the exact same characters.
      34. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        Didn't you just refute your own argument? Batman lends himself to a dark tone. The premise of 2 beloved heroes fighting each other also lends itself to a darker tone. This movie should have been dark from the get go. You just said yourself that you don't know why critics complained about the dark tone of BvS while they didn't do so with TDK. Could that possibly be because the supposed backlash against BvS as a result of the "dark tone" is WIDELY exaggerated and not accurate to the real criticisms? In other words, you don't know why it happened probably because it actually never really happened in the first place.
      35. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        "It’s no secret that audience and critical response to March’s superhero
        smackdown was disappointing, with many lamenting the oppressively dark
        and somewhat joyless tone of the film"
        -http://collider.com/justice...
        "Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice didn’t
        quite live up to the expectations for Warner Bros., DC Entertainment,
        and certainly a large legion of fans. Among the criticisms and
        inevitable comparisons to rival comic book movie studios was that the Man of Steel followup was simply too “dark.”
        -http://screenrant.com/batma...
        "The dominant theme from the negative responses is that Snyder's take on
        the DC Comics Extended Universe, introduced in his "Man of Steel" in
        2013, is unrelentingly dark, pummeling, brutal."
        -http://www.latimes.com/ente...
      36. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        You literally just proved my point that the only ones bringing up the "dark tone" as a problem, are those who reference the audience's supposed dismissal of said tone. Ffs, it's people like you who are the problem here, no offence. I take it you enjoyed the dark tone? Well, then stop perpetuating the idea that audiences didn't like the film because of it. You're your own worst enemy here. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you say it, the more you will believe it and the more the studio itself will believe "the tone" to be one of, if not the biggest issue of the film, when evidently that wasn't even close to being the case.
        I've seen dozens of "what's wrong with BvS" videos on YT. Not one of them even mentions the tone.
      37. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        So even though other news sites say that one of the many criticisms was of the dark tone, me, others, and even the studio are exaggerating this complaint? These three examples aren't even saying that this complaint wasn't solely vocalized by audiences.
      38. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        You just don't get it. They are saying people didn't like it because of the tone. But they can never really find individual examples of people complaining about the "dark tone". For the billionth time, the only ones bringing up the "tone" as a potential issue are people like you who were completely flabbergasted at the abysmal reaction of the movie, and needed a scapegoat of some sorts to put all the blame on, in this case being "the darker tone"... you know, despite the fact that people (critics and audiences) loved Nolan's movies for the exact same reasons.
        The only reason why you actually believe people kept complaining about the tone, is because YOU were the ones constantly bringing it up. Yesterday I went through dozens, if not hundreds of RT Rotten reviews... I would say 95% of them didn't even mention the tone, and the ones who did didn't explicitly say "the darker tone" was the reason as to why it was bad. It just didn't happen. You're making it up, and you support your claim, with your own claim. It's a vicious circle, nothing more.
      39. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        How about I make this easy for you, Seb. We'll just agree to disagree, okay? We'll just let each other believe what we want to believe. Because it's obvious that we're gonna be doing this back and forth all day, and quite frankly, I rather save the energy for a different possible argument today.
      40. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        I was gonna say the exact same thing to you, honestly. You're right, there's no point here.
      41. CITIZEN SUCK ME
        August 11, 2017
        LOGAN > DARK + STRETCHED AF + YAWN INDUCING
        BVS > DARK + BALLSY + INTERESTING
    2. ken
      August 10, 2017
      Did you actually read what I wrote? It's called damaged control, you present a strong front while working on the actual issues. The General public doesn't need to know nor care that you're working on the scripts issues, pacing issues etc. Also I don't know what imaginary land you live in but the dark Tone is one of not the main criticism when it comes to DC movies.
      1. Seb
        August 10, 2017
        It's clear you didn't read mine as I don't even remotely believe the "general audience only cared about tone". Seriously, where were all of these whiny babies when WB released their darker Batman trilogy ten years ago?
        Again, not once have I seen a person complain mostly about the tone, and I sure as hell have never seen anyone particularly optimistic as a result of "tonal changes" WB keeps promising.
        "but the dark Tone is one of not the main criticism when it comes to DC movies."
        Yeah, I guess that's why TDK films are the highest rated CBM movies... like ever?
      2. ken
        August 10, 2017
        TDK were great films all across the board, that's why no ones had a problem with the tone just like Logan. In Snyder case the tone sticks out like a sore thumb because the movie around it is not that good to begin with.
      3. ken
        August 10, 2017
        However, Snyder is a masterful director. In many ways, better even than Nolan.
2. Kerk Lastnameless
  August 10, 2017
  I can tell you for myself that the tone was an issue for me. Know why? Because it was so oppressive throughout the movie that by the end of it I felt exhausted. That's not what I want from my DC movies. Especially not from Superman movies.
  On that note, SS was much leggier, even though its editing was arguably even worse. Why? Because it delivered FUN. Audiences like fun. And tone is an integral part of it.
  1. Seb
    August 11, 2017
    Fun is not the opposite of dark. And what you seem to have issue with is not a "dark" tone. It's a nihilistic tone. I reckon you enjoyed TDK Trilogy, yes? Those were even darker movies. But they didn't beat you over the head with it. Batman was allowed to show real human emotions, not necessarily happiness, but surely not brooding and depression 24/7 either. Unlike BvS, Batman in Nolan's movies was an inspiring figure, as he should be. It also doesn't help that BvS is just way too serious for the kind of movie that it is. One the one hand, it tries to be this very comic booky movie with monsters, Aliens, one-man-armies (Batman)... and on the other hand, it tries so fucking hard to be serious and "realistic" like the Nolan films. These tones clash, and also accentuate the even bleaker tones. The characters in BvS are never allowed to breathe. They're not allowed to have levity or anything other than sadness and rage. Again, that's not "dark". That's just nihilistic of the highest order. There was one review I read which said "it makes you wonder if the Sun will ever rise again" and that pretty much fairly describes what's wrong with the tone. The movie just doesn't allow for anything good to happen. While TDK films were even darker, good things actually DID happen, which meant for all the darkness of those films, there was a sense of catharsis when Batman succeeded. So yes, I agree with you I don't want JL to be as hollow and emotionally exhausting as BvS... but that doesn't mean I want a "fun, lighthearted" movie like Avengers either.
    1. Kerk Lastnameless
      August 11, 2017
      Well, I guess "dark" is just too obscure of a term for people to agree on what it is exactly. I don't know if I'd call TDK THAT dark. I mean, when they literally use filters to dim all the colors and make you see silhouettes even during the day, what else would one call it?
      1. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        What the Joker did in TDK was more twisted and darker than anything we've seen in BvS. The only time I thought BvS was doing something particularly dark was when Luthor showed Supes the pictures of his mom being tortured. But in TDK, they actually SHOW the scene where Joker tortures people.
3. mr nobody
  August 11, 2017
  AMEN
4. X-Planet
  August 11, 2017
  I agree with almost everything you say, but "overstuffed"? It definitely felt that way, but it seemed more like a really light plot that was puffed up to seem bigger, which made that it was muddled even more egregious.
  1. Seb
    August 11, 2017
    Lots of subplots that didn't need to be in the movie. In the UC, the whole "Africa" subplot at least makes sense... but they could've just used the destruction he caused in MOS to the same effect. That plot point didn't need to be in the movie, as it could have been replaced by a far more relevant plot point which would have streamlined the movie.
    1. X-Planet
      August 11, 2017
      I take your points and agree. I guess I was thinking that the plot itself could have been told very well in about 90 minutes without feeling rushed. There was a lot of "fat," but that's partly what I meant by "puffed up." Been a while since I watched it.
    2. X-Planet
      August 11, 2017
      Also, I feel pretty confident in Whedon's ability to smooth out a story. A lot of the humor people complain about is used to reinforce information and segue into scenes. He knows how to pace and transition expertly, even if he's not a "great" director.
      1. Seb
        August 11, 2017
        If he does that "connective tissue" they talked about, I'll be more than happy. As that is what BvS and MoS severely lacked. I also hope he's rewriting Superman's character, because quite frankly, Snyder has NO idea what Superman's supposed to be. He think it's somehow a great offence for Superman to have an uplifting personality. If Superman is more like Cap from the MCU with a little bit more humor and hope, that would be great.
Frank
August 10, 2017
"I think what I heard" WTF?
Unique Jenique
August 10, 2017
Queue the babies who will whine and claim they are "done with the "DCEU" and "won't be seeing Justice League" in three....two....one....
residentgrigo
August 10, 2017
Vic is supposed to be "the heart" of the JLA according go Zack himself yet his tragic story should see proper payoff. Still, you gotta need that "heart" too and Snydra himself wanted the re-shoots/additional scenes so fine with me. Re-shoot away, especially with a master as Joss guiding it.
Zack not filming these scenes doesn´t bug me either but him being lost for assembling the final cut is what may or may not hurt the film. Worry about that instead. The rest is just media spinning with meaningless buzzwords as fun and dark.
1. Wagner Von Schmit
  August 11, 2017
  Flash should be the heart. Cyborg should just be there and get less then 5 mins of screen time.
  1. residentgrigo
    August 11, 2017
    He is the most important character after the Trinity if you want to do a New Gods film with the JLA. He is a living mother-box since the N52. No wonder WB is so hell bent on getting him right.
    1. Wagner Von Schmit
      August 11, 2017
      Flash is 4 (multiverse) and aquaman(Atlantis) is 5 cyborg is dead last.
      Also seems cyborg movie has been cancelled good tired of robot/human cliches in movies.
      1. residentgrigo
        August 12, 2017
        The Cyborg film was confirmed to in development last month...
Casanova
August 10, 2017
i really hope this dc universe will finish soon and some serious directors will come on board to create a dark universe with dc characters, this new humour is just like marvel and it sucks, I preferred 10000 more the BvS and Dark Knight Trilogy tone
WHAT A SHAME
1. Davonedoyle
  August 10, 2017
  You do know the dc universe isn't completely dark. There is a mixture of tone. And if your waiting for a new DC universe your going to be waiting for a very long time
ken
August 10, 2017
Wait how do we know that?
1. ken
  August 10, 2017
  Ah okay thanks.
2. Schuyler Finley
  August 10, 2017
  Either Silas survives or we're gonna see him in some flashbacks in the Cyborg film.
  1. Blockhead Jr.
    August 11, 2017
    Despite being a dick on this site a lot, a Lucky Number Slevin reference earns you good karma from me dawg.
    1. Blockhead Jr.
      August 11, 2017
      Anyway... good reference to a movie I like.
Opaque Knight
August 10, 2017
I personally don’t think there’s reason to worry about Joss Whedon’s so called “tone” adjustments. We’ve known from the start that Justice League would have an lighter tone compared to BvS.
1. Kerk Lastnameless
  August 10, 2017
  So we were told from the start that JL would be lighter in tone, therefore, they had to do monstrously expensive reshoots right before the release of the movie to make it so? Get a grip! You were lied to. Snyder does not know the meaning of "bright and hopeful." What really happened was, he made it just as dark as BvS with a few clumsy jokes here and there, then they had enough of it, fired him under the pretense of carrying for his tragedy and got Whedon to salvage the movie. Because they can't afford to have it fail. If JL fails, it's the end of DCEU.
  1. Schuyler Finley
    August 10, 2017
    .........................
    "What really happened was, he made it just as dark as BvS with a few
    clumsy jokes here and there, then they had enough of it, fired him under
    the pretense of carrying for his tragedy and got Whedon to salvage the
    movie."
    Kerk, shut up.
  2. Opaque Knight
    August 10, 2017
    Where did you get the idea that WB had “enough of him and fired Zack Snyder under false pretenses”?
    WB was wiling to delay the release of Justice League so that Zack could finish the movie himself. Zack declined that idea, hired Joss Whedon personally and convinced Whedon to take over as the director when Zack couldn’t.
    What is your definition of failure? Because none of the DCEU movies have “failed” yes the critics/fan responses are divisive but none of them are box office bombs.
    1. Schuyler Finley
      August 11, 2017
      If WB fired Zack under the pretense that he was mourning over the death of his daughter, it will be media shitstorm if the truth comes out. That's why Kerk's assumption is beyond insane.
      1. Kerk Lastnameless
        August 11, 2017
        Do you live in some sort of paradise? I mean, you sound like you've never heard of a corporation lying to people in order to save its business. You know how often corporations cut corners on personal safety in order to save money? You know that people get injured and die over that? But WB lying to people over their real reasons for getting a new director for a movie -- NOOOOOO! That's just too monstrous to believe.
        Your naivety is cute.
      2. Schuyler Finley
        August 11, 2017
        And your lack of understanding the ramifications if this were to be true and ever becomes public is flabbergasting.
      3. Kerk Lastnameless
        August 11, 2017
        Two People. All it would take. Two people.
        Tsujihara to Roven: Ok, we need this to work, and he is not getting there. While it's still not too late, get rid of him. Tell him we love him and want him to be with his family and that we'll get Joss to finish his outstanding work. Above all, don't tell anyone. If people learn why we are really getting rid of him, JL will bomb for sure.
        Roven: Got it.
        Two people.
    2. Kerk Lastnameless
      August 11, 2017
      Where did you get the info that they were willing to push the release date? Did he also hire Whedon to replace the composer? Everyone who objects to me LOVES to forget that small detail. And let me restate in caps -- THEY REPLACED THE FUKIN COMPOSER. You really going to tell me with a straight face that that was in Snyder's plan? That he himself wanted to get rid of Junky XL and hire Elfman? No, no, and no. Everything we've got so far indicates that WB is FIXING the movie, not finishing it.
      1. FastestKnight
        August 11, 2017
        "Where did you get the info that they were willing to push the release date?"
        It was said by Snyder himself. Warner wanted to push the release date to give them time, but he and her wife said no.
        Snyder delayed Batman v Superman an entire year. It's been done before.
        "THEY REPLACED THE FUKIN COMPOSER."
        OMG! It's not like, you know, movies sometimes do that. Rogue One, Age of Ultron, Green Hornet....
        And it's not like Junkie XL had other work, like Tomb Raider or Dark Tower.
      2. Kerk Lastnameless
        August 11, 2017
        So it WAS Snyder's plan, right? They followed up on his wish to get rid of Junkie XL?
      3. $36988920
        August 11, 2017
        My worry is that they're not going to continue the themes from the last two films and are going to opt for more 'classic' sounds in the compositiions.
        I actually like the more somber superman theme from MOS!
  3. Cocaine Cowboy
    August 10, 2017
    So Snyder agreed to exploit his own daughter's suicide for PR spin?...and this is after he was fired lol. I know you're trolling, you couldn't possibly be that fucking stupid in addition to being a despicable human being.
    1. Kerk Lastnameless
      August 11, 2017
      No. Why is it so hard to grasp? He did not need to agree. He did not even need to know. At some point, they just came up to him and said, "Ok, the movie is almost done. You go home and be with your family, we'll have Joss finish polishing it for you." Was that hard?
      1. Cocaine Cowboy
        August 11, 2017
        He gave his own statement in that press release backing up everything WB was saying, specifically to prevent that sort of rumor. The same press release that said that it was HE who asked for Whedon's help before the tragedy or at least before he chose to step away.
residentgrigo
August 10, 2017
http://i.imgur.com/VYFzDak.jpg
Don´skip the neat Krypton info on the right.
Jesse Hernandez
August 10, 2017
FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
ken
August 10, 2017
Marvel doesn't have the ownership of fun you know. We don't necessarily need the first Justice League to be dark. Also it's funny that you throw away gems like Winter Soldier or Ironman in saying all Marvel movies suck meanwhile you admit your love for those Guardians movies which are the archertype of the Marvel movies, kiddie flick with poop jokes.
The Turdinator
August 10, 2017
Truthfully I am concerned by this. Z. Snyder and J. Whedon direct their superhero movies in a MUCH different way. Snyder being more cinematography concentrated with a more serious tone which generally leads towards people thinking his movies are "dark" in tone. BvS problems were simply due to poor editing,writing, and also chopping the movie by 30 mins, which was imposed on Snyder by WB only a short period of time before the release of the movie. Therefore, the end result was a rushed and chopped movie. Whedon directing the avengers was great, the first avengers will go down as one of the best, if not the best. His light tone works well with the characters of the MCU, however I worry that due to these two different directing methods combined into the film may lead to a choppy flow or the movie may have a confusing direction or tone. In conclusion, this is def. a concern.
1. ken
  August 10, 2017
  Cutting that was imposed by WB because that not what the studios ordered when they hired him. If a studio gives you $250M and you can't make a solid crowd pleaser movie under 3hour runtime I'm sorry but you are the problem. Snyder let WB down not the opposite.
  1. The Turdinator
    August 10, 2017
    Good point I agree, never really thought about the other side of it all. I think going forward however WB is more likely to do well with producing superhero/comic films. Here's to hoping the build up from WW will carry JL to a nice box office.
  2. Robin Bankes
    August 10, 2017
    It's difficult for a director to make a 2.5 hour movie from a script that lends itself to a 4+ hour movie, which I suspect was partially the case based on past interviews
2. Aheaney15
  August 10, 2017
  A good chunk of the cut footage from the theatrical cut in the UE adds NOTHING to the film. I think the film could have gone without the R-rated stuff (Who the flying hell asked for a shot of Affleck's ass?) and a bunch of other scenes.
  Also a lot of the film's biggest problems stem from almost everything in the story (the pacing, how crammed it is, and coherency; the UE does not fix this), as well as several characters (Batman killing casually, Everything involving Eisenberg as Lex, and Doomsday).
3. Cocaine Cowboy
  August 10, 2017
  I think it's about the more intimate character moments, you want the team to have an enjoyable chemistry with each other. That doesn't just mean performing cool "double team" attacks on the battlefield, but also the moments when they are just bullshitting in the Batcave. I think Snyder realized something was lacking there and brought Whedon in to correct it.
  The tone is dictated more by the story I believe, this isn't heroes at eachother's throats like with BvS, it's heroes acting heroically to save the world. That dictates a lighter tone.
4. Unique Jenique
  August 10, 2017
  Zack had an unexpected tragedy happen. He declined to postpone the film until he was ready, so Zack asked Joss to finish. The reshoots were planned with Zack until his daughter passed and he needed proper time to mourn. We have no idea if these were planned by Zack but now Joss is just executing them.We kinda have to accept what is and hope for the best.
Memorian
August 10, 2017
Hhmmm, I'm glad. So far for everything that we've seen from Cyborg I really was getting nothing from his character and was feeling a bit disapointed. It like they were making Cyborg lean too much into his cyborgy-ness (if that makes any sense lol). He felt a little too stoic for my liking, as if he was never human. For me, I see Cyborg as someone with a lot of charisma, which Ray Fisher does have and I'd like to see that come across on screen. I'm really interested to see what that'll be like from the scenes we get of him now.
Also I loved everything Joe Morton had to say about Victor being the Other.
1. Schuyler Finley
  August 10, 2017
  Considering his situation, it would've been very weird it was charismatic throughout the entirety of te film. I believe that he'll become the joyful like in the cartoons, but I don't want his character to be rushed just to lighten up the story.
  1. Memorian
    August 10, 2017
    I mean I get that. But even in the Teen Titans the Series while Cyborg would fool around with Beast Boy and have fun the cartoon never shied away from his insecurities about what he had become and how it still effects him deep down.
    Of course this movie is basically taking place not too long after his transformation, so I don't expect him to be jumping around or anything. But you can still have charisma and be sad. I was just getting nothing from what I had seen of Cyborg so far, he just seem meh to me.
    Also, I do expect his character to be rushed to lighten up. Since he's only going to have this one film to be introduced and for the audience to like him, before his solo. I can't say whether that's a good or a bad thing since I haven't seen the film yet tho.
    1. Schuyler Finley
      August 10, 2017
      I can agree with that. And Snyder did say that Cyborg is the heart of the film. But I'm not expecting to be screaming "Boo-yah!!" at the end of the film. He'll probably be content with his new body instead of wishing that is dad had left him dead.
  2. El Maybe
    August 11, 2017
    It's not a surprise to anyone that Cyborg will be struggling with what happened to him, but he could be one of those happy on the outside, hurt inside type of character. Instead of boring regular people with his lack of personality and humor due to the tragedy people won't really relate to because there was no set up film or anything, they could have him as a fun and interesting character and then catch people by surprise when showing how he really feels about himself at a key point in the movie. It would grab people's attention and and be more true to the character, win win.
    But noooo, let's just make him have no personality for most of the movie because he's sad after all - simple thinking, zero resourcefulness - and act like an actual instead of a human because it's cooler!
    1. Schuyler Finley
      August 11, 2017
      I'm sure that those who have had lost limbs can relate to him. You say that he should act like a regular human, but isn't his "lack of a personality" something that an actual person were to act like if they were in his shoes? As Obi-Wan would say "He's more machine now than man". He considers himself to be a freak. He's gonna act angsty. You would think that he's insane if he was acting all joyful even if he was only pretending.
2. $36988920
  August 11, 2017
  He's a guy who's lost 90% of his body! If any character has a right to act a little emo, Cyborg is definitely it.
  Who knows? Maybe somedays DC will let Zack release a graphic Novel detailing where he originally intended to take the series before the critical backlash made them do a complete 180 that's only going to come off as disingenuous and please noone.
  1. Memorian
    August 11, 2017
    I never said I had a problem with Cyborg being emo. I just said I was getting nothing from him in what I was seeing. I didn't feel excited or anything from what Ive seen him so far. He just seems really stiff and bland compared to everyone else. I have no problem with emo characters *coughs* Batman *Coughs*
residentgrigo
August 10, 2017
I have a question: Why is Joss suddenly seen as a pure comedy director by this site and our reddit?
The initially campy looking Buffy is more serious that it is comedic. Firefly is a serious show (Serenity is even a tragedy), dito for Angel and Dollhouse was too bleak to hit it with the mainstream.
Avengers, Dr. Horrible and Much Ado About Nothing are obviously lighter fare but his comic work is again quite dark. Like child rape dark (Marvel´s Runaways).
I frankly fail to see how Snydra´s Oeuvre is supposed to be tonally incomputable with Whedon´s work.
Both even tend to cover similar topics. Whedon´s next film, besides Batgirl, is even an untitled horror film.
Again, he is per-producing a HORROR film while working on JLA!
1. FastestKnight
  August 10, 2017
  It's because he directed two Marvel films, and you know, "Marvel is the enemy! Marvel = jokes Marvel = Fun"
  Marvel invented jokes in movies. It's not like, you know, Jurassic Park, Star Wars, ET, Indiana Jones or even the fricking Nolan trilogy had jokes.
  So, now Joss is a comedy director who will change the entire movie into jokes, even if the first Justice League teaser at Comic Con last year was, literally, 4 minutes of jokes in a room without lights.
  Everyone is upset because now because of Whedon, JL will have a lot of bad jokes, not like the "I think he's hot", "I heard you can talk to fish", "More more or more or less?" masterpieces Zack provided us.
  If the movie's good, it's because of Snyder despite Whedon, and if it's bad, it's all Whedon's fault.
  1. $36988920
    August 11, 2017
    "It's not like, you know, Jurassic Park, Star Wars, ET, Indiana Jones or even the fricking Nolan trilogy had jokes."
    The nolan trilogy didn't have Batman making Spider-Man-esque quips, or being all meta like Hawkeye when he said "I'm fighting robots with a crossbow, none of this makes sense", or have Batman pretty much look directly at the audience and all but break the fourth wall saying "nobody is actually dying! We evacuated ALL of the people in this town the bad guy is destroying! See how NOT dark we are?" like Captain America did in AOU.
    The 'talk to fish joke' was there because when when the controversy and complaints about BVS were shrunk down to 120 digits or less it came out as 'MOAR JOAKS!" despite the problems with that movie being a lot more nuanced than that. But nuance is the one thing DC, WB, and to a lesser extent Marvel don't seem to understand.
    1. Whoops
      August 12, 2017
      The Nolan Trilogy didn't have Batman making Spider-Man and Hawkeye jokes because.....and i know this is shocking but....Batman is not Spider-Man or Hawkeye.
      Spider-Man is a sarcastic smart ass kid in nearly all incarnations. Hawkeye majority of the time in comics is presented as a wise cracking hot head (much like his DC counterpart Green Arrow). You literally made the worse comparisons to try and back up your point.
      Here's some more facts for you, did you forget the fact that blatantly had someone look at the camera in BvS and say "that place is abandoned" and "luckily the city is nearly empty this time of night" before causing tons of destruction again? You can buy an Evacuation, that was part of Cap's plan and directly played into the story with some people being trapped on the floating city. But someone saying "hey we're destroying this city again but dont worry no one's really here cus its past work hours" isn't a cop out? Hmm...
      And please, stop acting like you sit behind the scenes and know what jokes were put in what trailer as a reaction to criticism.
2. Both
  August 11, 2017
  the Avengers films are rather juvenile. The characters are caricatures of themselves. Avengers' success set the tone for the MCU from there on.
  1. residentgrigo
    August 11, 2017
    Thor, Iron-man 2 and Cap 1 had the same tone and Avengers 1 stuck reasonably closely to the books.
    1. All
      August 11, 2017
      of them have had comedy, yes. The first Iron Man had comedy, too. But those films didn't overdo it. I do not mean quantitatively. Before Avengers comedy, in MCU usually didn't come at the cost of a character's reputation or a situation's gravity.
      Congruence with the source material isn't a factor in how good or bad a film is. It's all fiction
      1. residentgrigo
        August 11, 2017
        Which Iron-man 2 did you watch? It´s the least serious of the MCU films to date. Even Ant-man had more pathos with the 2 father daughter relationships.
Knight-Errant
August 10, 2017
What type of "risks" should they take?
The scores are forgettable because they don't keep the same composer throughout each series. Probably good that Alan Silvestri is set to return for the next 2 Avengers movies. That'll at least be consistency from the initial movie.
IamTheOneWhoKnocks
August 10, 2017
Not to jump ahead, but if Justice League does sucks...I will just wait for the Flash movie to reboot this whole universe.
1. residentgrigo
  August 10, 2017
  Rebooting is not what Flashpoint the comic is about. The N52 creation was a last second addition to the story (boy does it show) and it was forced on Geoff Johns. Him getting his current DCEU producer role more or less cements the Snyder produced film. For better or worse.
  What Flashpoint was supposed to do though is rework Barry´s origin by making him a tragic character and that´s why Rebirth didn´t undo that aspect.
  1. residentgrigo
    August 10, 2017
    Sure but you don´t need Flashpoint, Days of Future Past and so on for that. Look at the MCU. They just do it between films and everyone accepts it.
    Recasting major roles, Civil War´s staus quo + darkening of Tony basically being ignored in Homecoming, etc. BvS for example gave Superman a new suit with zero explanations so it already begun... That´s pretty much how the books did it for decades.
    1. residentgrigo
      August 10, 2017
      Them taking it slow with GL is godsend. Goeff literately said in the 2016 CW presentation that they pushed the film into a late slate to get it all right. WB having Goyer work on the script (or the usual storyline draft) is a quality move too, as him and Goeff co-wrote JSA for years, so he should be the best man outside of Geoff to get the Corps. right. Now look at the the JLA: War toon / the N52 comic.
      Hal just shows up and comes off as a deus ex machina dick despite being a focus in all issues. The same shit would happen here if Snyder just shoved him into JLA, or even worse the 3rd act of BvS. ´Member how much the community wanted the whole JLA in the last 30 minutes of that film...
      1. residentgrigo
        August 10, 2017
        Cyborg is in the film to explain Prademons and so on. You could rewrite the cops as being an anti-Apokolips police (you gotta connect everything in a blockbuster) but i don´t want that. No sir. The 2010 film is a borderline hate crime that rubbished nearly all it touched, so i´ll just wait wait for my window (i am a hardcore GL fan since GL Rebith in 2004) and for the Corps. to take center stage for real.
  2. residentgrigo
    August 10, 2017
    There were "no secret" plans. His whole script was used but the Pandora sequence got added. Flashpoint is also not remembered for creating the N52, as that´s like a 4 page scene at the maximum. JLA: Origin is that comic. Flashpoint´s apocalyptic parallel present is what most took away. It even stayed in canon and got revisited this year during The Button while the N52 is currently being undone.
    The CW also had a "Flashpoint" in 2016 and it where is that reboot again?
    It did something else though. Barry´s timeline was messed up in the process while the connected show got minimal effects at best that got mined for about 1 short arc each.
    Aka. exactly what Geoff´s script for the comic originally envisioned. Expect a similar outcome in his film too and maybe a permanent time traveler being stranded in the DCEU.
    BvS also had a Flash scene from Crisis adapted. A story that was ALL about rebooting DC. So wait, what´s the narrative here? WB wanted to reboot all along?
  3. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
    August 10, 2017
    Of course not, but you would be naive to think they won't use it to reboot this franchise if Justice League is a critical failure. Not saying the entire thing, but basically BvS events and Suicide Squad, and of course Superman not killing Zod.
    1. residentgrigo
      August 11, 2017
      No one one but Youtube faces give a shit about Superman (again) killing Zod and you can´t reboot Squad with it currently getting 2 sequels at once. Especially if i consider how but a fan of the Squad Goeff is.
  4. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
    August 10, 2017
    Exactly!
2. Schuyler Finley
  August 10, 2017
  Oh come on, man. Not you too!
  1. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
    August 10, 2017
    I know, I know.....but I am just getting a weird feeling about all this. Most likely I am wrong though. I love the DCEU tone, sure they needed to lighten up certain things here and there, but look at the abomination they did to Suicide Squad so they could be more "fun." Wonder Woman made up for all that though, so I hope they continue with that tone for most of their movies. I just can't cross my fingers with Whedon on that one though.
    1. Schuyler Finley
      August 10, 2017
      I understand your worries. Even I have my worries, but I'm willing to cast them aside and believe that Whendon make it as light-hearted as the Avengers was.
      1. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
        August 10, 2017
        Fair enough.
      2. Schuyler Finley
        August 10, 2017
        It's like PaRappa the rapper would say: Ya gotta believe!!
        Man that was cheesy.
      3. IamTheOneWhoKnocks
        August 10, 2017
        Lol..
      4. Abkinxoc
        August 10, 2017
        What are you guys worried about?
        If Marvel talent can't fix the train wreck that was the dceu then who can? The more like mcu dceu becomes the more i get excited.
      5. Are
        August 11, 2017
        you 12?
Ravager
August 10, 2017
I'm not even gonna judge this, let's see how it goes
Kerk Lastnameless
August 10, 2017
I think we all could see that it was all doom and gloom from the first comicon footage....Notwithstanding the fact that they assured us multiple times that it's always been Snyder's plan to make Justice League bright and hopeful, as opposed to BvS. Who believed that bull back then?
1. Speak
  August 11, 2017
  for yourself. The first teaser definitely can't be called all "doom and gloom." Second latest is definitely darker. And longer, thus has the time to show more of the tonal span.
residentgrigo
August 10, 2017
Whedon more is more or less on dialogue/character motivation duty with these re-shoots, even if he got Junkie fired (a bummer), so i don´t expect him to have (re-)filmed too much proper action scenes but he is the right man of the job for these too. That man loves his destruction porn as much a Snydra! Jook look at how he powered up Cyclops.
http://images.sequart.org/i...
That arc had quite a death toll. As do many of his works. I thus hope that he gets a more high concept project after Batgirl as he can absolutely bring it on all fronts. So WB better take it slow with him. Can´t have a talent as him again walk away prematurely. Not that his dreaded "fun" isn´t good either:
https://images.moviepilot.c...
Schuyler Finley
August 10, 2017
I can already feel a headache coming from the number of people that are gonna be screaming "The End is Nigh".
1. residentgrigo
  August 10, 2017
  https://media.giphy.com/med...
  1. Schuyler Finley
    August 11, 2017
    It's already starting with folks again saying "Oh it wasn't the tone that was the problem", even though during the first goddamn month of the film's release, that was one of the major issues that had with the film. People kept on and on complaining about the film being too dark and serious. They said that since it's a comic book film, it doesn't have to take itself seriously. For fuck's sake, I don't get why we have to have the same damn arguments when it comes to the DCEU. It's the same fucking complaints and I;m tried of people saying otherwise. No one wants to let go of their grief even though it's been a goddamn year since the film's release. Even the fucking Twilight films were forgotten until the next was released.
Humdi 257
August 10, 2017
Why is this an issue? Because people want to discredit Zach Snyder from the plausible success of Justice League however they can and that they will never want to praise him. But if Justice League disappoints then I guarantee Zach will get all the credit.
1. Kerk Lastnameless
  August 10, 2017
  Of COURSE he will. The official theory that the reshoots add only "minor" changes. So the bulk of the movie is on Snyder. You bet your ass, he will be blamed.
2. SeanV26
  August 10, 2017
  I feel like it's a lose/lose scenario. If the film is a critical/commercial slam dunk, it's "because of Joss Whedon and his reshoots". If it's not well-received, it'll be "because of Zack's dark tone". Bash Snyder or praise Whedon, it's disgusting.

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